Olympic Gold, World Championships & The Power of Letting Go - Malaika Mihambo

00:00:00: I achieved gold, but it felt like... ...I was the loneliest winner at the whole junior championship.

00:00:09: for me.

00:00:11: For me competing is more about unfolding my potential in a healthy kind of way.

00:00:19: A whole winter i would sit there preparing and this failure would be my fuel to wake up at five And keep going and do another training session.

00:00:29: but it's also so important to have more in life than just, you know be more then just your job.

00:00:46: Todays guest is someone who jumps more that seven meters through the air for a living which was already pretty impressive.

00:00:54: But whats more impressive Is she convinced me A guy who spent twenty three years trying keep moving forward on straight line That secret to explosive power is sitting still and thinking about as little possible.

00:01:11: Malai Kamihambo is an Olympic gold medalist, a two-time world champion.

00:01:16: She has studied political sciences and she's an environmental science student And possibly the most philosophical person to ever wear spikes.

00:01:26: When I was preparing for this conversation i watched her win Gold in Tokyo.

00:01:30: Then i watched her win Silver in Paris.

00:01:33: despite having Covid only shortly before I found myself reading about her meditation retreats and journaling practice, which is how i normally only prepare for interviews with olympic champions.

00:01:48: Malika this is Frodeno going mental welcome to mihambo-going-mental.

00:01:54: hi thanks for having me here.

00:01:55: malika we know your titles but for someone who doesn't know you...how would you describe yourself?

00:02:03: well think it's not that easy to answer.

00:02:09: But I think i'm calm and deep, have a lot of humor... And let's say philosophical!

00:02:18: Okay so just start at the beginning.

00:02:22: biographically maybe you grew up in Heidelberg Germany which is probably known for its sports kind.

00:02:34: But then you were outside of that area again, proper rural middle-of nowhere let's call it Germany.

00:02:41: When did sports first come into your life and how do they came about?

00:02:45: Well I think i started to do sports like the minute I could walk...I started to work with nine months.

00:02:53: so it started early.

00:02:55: And uh..i think three years ago was a member my current club.

00:03:02: Wow!

00:03:02: That is loyal

00:03:04: That's loyalty, yeah.

00:03:06: Twenty-nine years!

00:03:08: And I started with gymnastics and ballet also did judo... ...and with eight i started with track & field.

00:03:19: Why do you think that was?

00:03:21: You obviously started moving had some sort of genetics but why do you thing sports is so early or important?

00:03:29: Actually..I really don't know it just within me.

00:03:33: I love to move, i love to improve movements.

00:03:39: So sport was always something that would cheer me up and give me something to focus on And for me it's more the competition with myself.

00:03:49: so It is never about other people and beating them.

00:04:01: motivation for me to, yeah focus on sports.

00:04:05: I mean it's pretty crazy.

00:04:06: i read your book and you describe that maybe...I don't know..i think pre being ten years old.

00:04:13: so like when in the very early days of your track-and-field You described yourself wanting to get better and improving yourself rather than going up against everybody else?

00:04:24: That took probably an extra thirty years To figure out.

00:04:28: did they just come natural?

00:04:33: Yes, maybe yes.

00:04:35: Maybe no I think in a way yes because i'm really tearful and love community other people.

00:04:44: so that kind of sense rather not non-competitive but also struggled growing up nineties, beginning of the two thousand years.

00:05:04: So it was not that easy.

00:05:07: I struggled from racism so i think i learned a lot!

00:05:13: So...I was maybe ten but i experienced more than many children do and may be should experience..so i think that also something made me focus on how to live.

00:05:31: Yeah, happily together.

00:05:32: then just beat yourself up while trying to beat others.

00:05:37: Yeah seeking harmony over seeking competition maybe?

00:05:41: And seeking peace and you know... Just do what your love and cheer for others who do the same.

00:05:48: so be more like a team!

00:05:51: Would you say that's how you metabolize that pain for you by meeting anger with Love because most people I don't know, tend to meet anger with more anger.

00:06:04: Yeah i guess yeah it was mainly sad not even angry and i could not understand because i thought i was wrong.

00:06:14: my mom tried to explain that the concept of racism exists but you know a child cannot grab.

00:06:21: that doesn't make sense.

00:06:24: so for me Yeah, focus on anger and turn against other people.

00:06:34: And do the same.

00:06:35: what I experienced?

00:06:36: I just wanted to look like... Looked at something better than that.

00:06:46: so i focused on yeah Just be peaceful friendly and try to heal in the meantime.

00:06:57: And sports maybe gave you that valve, right?

00:07:02: To be a language everybody talks on the same level.

00:07:06: That everyone is out together!

00:07:09: Yeah and I think there also track-and-fields are really an amazing kind of sport because it doesn't matter where they come from... It's quite diverse anyway and men or women are paid equal.

00:07:25: So it was like a really good base for living that.

00:07:30: Yeah, that's what I really liked and enjoyed And i think It was always a good thing That I turned towards sports instead of the pain that I had.

00:07:43: But at the same time it also Was not only positive but I realized in my early twenties that sport is something where you try to cope with the pain I had experienced early in my life.

00:07:58: And do you think that is something where you turned it into something positive for you?

00:08:02: when you say, It wasn't positive?

00:08:03: What do you

00:08:03: mean?".

00:08:04: So i learned through the racism That I'm not good as a person and don't have any value.

00:08:11: so sports showed me okay...I can keep up with people maybe not bad but at the same time something that I would tell myself, but it's not really related to self-love at the point.

00:08:37: So i had to figure this out.

00:08:39: Sport was something for me in my early twenties and learned so much about me through self reflection also meditation work with coaches and also reading books, documentaries to understand the human brain but my personal patterns in mind.

00:09:04: My heart and how I feel helped me figure out how to do sports without trying to survive my trauma.

00:09:17: To live and be happy...

00:09:22: I mean, the beginning of each of these episodes.

00:09:25: I ask my guests to define what going mental means to you?

00:09:32: Don't know if your familiar with a term but Going Mental can mean all sorts things in any kind of directions and we've had some interesting answers But i would love to know especially since Yeah.

00:09:46: Taken us a little bit into your mental journey, what does going mental mean to you when you hear it?

00:09:51: What's the first thing that comes to mind?

00:09:56: actually I've never heard the term so um just loosely associating.

00:10:02: i think for me It feels like um Just focusing on what in your mind and then pull it out And just You know immerse completely with whatever is there.

00:10:20: Yeah, I mean you sort of could be

00:10:22: going crazy.

00:10:23: but could we also go philosophical and win another prize?

00:10:32: That's the whole kind of play that we like to kind of go into... Some people think it's partying until five o'clock And other people think its getting through a two hour long run.

00:10:46: Yeah, that's why it is completely individual and I think what you feel on the day as well.

00:10:54: And maybe we can take to a term which i have never heard before.

00:11:04: We all think about medals or competition in sports.

00:11:08: anyways You talk of inner championship.

00:11:12: What do you mean by that?

00:11:15: Yeah, maybe that's my going mental.

00:11:19: For me it means that I'm focusing on competing with myself and master myself like master the body mind.

00:11:28: so work with everything that is there at the current moment but also focus on the past may be what you experienced?

00:11:37: The pain um...and the future.

00:11:42: So maybe what do you feel in the future would, um... What keeps your limits?

00:11:51: and I try to always solve those or at least as much as i can.

00:11:57: sometimes they come back for sure.

00:11:59: but for me competing is more about Unfolding my potential, but in a healthy kind of way.

00:12:09: So I do it with myself not against myself nor against anybody else just focusing on me My body and yeah my mind.

00:12:20: God you are so far ahead Of where i was at this kind of stage for Yeah to find that kind of In a piece?

00:12:28: I mean Most athletes including myself Visualize success And you talk about withdrawing from pressure and finding meditation.

00:12:42: What's the difference to you?

00:12:44: I mean, also do visualized success

00:12:48: as in medals or distances of how would.

00:12:52: what do visualize

00:12:54: mainly isn't feelings is how it feels to win To have one especially just already achieved that.

00:13:03: So I focus on that.

00:13:06: And found out it helps me, so if i won the competition already in my head and know how to feel then its easier for you put into reality.

00:13:18: You can also figure out some limitations.

00:13:24: maybe keep your mind away from those goals or maybe some kind of hindrance.

00:13:32: Maybe you're not good enough to win or I don't know, maybe if... You fear this one person that is stronger than you.

00:13:43: Or could be any reason.

00:13:47: but i dont really focus on values and times or length of meters when i do mental training.

00:13:56: for me it's more like an update.

00:13:59: so where am i right now?

00:14:02: what is going on in my heart.

00:14:04: Do I have any pain?

00:14:06: Maybe not even, yeah... Not even a connection to the track.

00:14:11: so it could be anything maybe family affairs or other private stuff that's going on.

00:14:18: you know You take all of this into your stadium as well right?

00:14:23: So its important.

00:14:24: we focus The goals that we want to achieve, but also the human that is trying to achieve those goals.

00:14:34: So that's a reason why I focus rather especially more on that than on the actual visualization of success.

00:14:45: and i also learned for myself that success Is so much more then winning a competition?

00:14:52: I don't know how it was about you But for me ,I realized Yeah, I reached gold but at some point when i was younger it still felt empty because my life or best life wasn't living with myself.

00:15:11: It's just trying to achieve something and in the end...I achieved Gold!

00:15:17: But it felt like I was the loneliest winner of all junior championships for me.

00:15:28: Yeah, I think a lot of champions could relate right how you have this kind Of high and especially the beginning.

00:15:35: You expect This medal this championship is whatever to solve all The complexities in your life.

00:15:44: And In reality well it's just.

00:15:50: It's such A fleeting feeling.

00:15:51: i feel like the ecstasy when you say, visualise already having done it.

00:15:56: How does that feel for?

00:15:59: Sometimes I think it feels more intense than actually winning because... You don't have the pain and exhaustion of competing or pressure.

00:16:09: It's just in this moment quite easy And its really intense as we always focus on our feelings in the moment, then there's so much going on.

00:16:23: There is like a big audience to stadium other competitors maybe your family.

00:16:29: So you're always not hundred percent inside and if you just visualize it sitting On your couch at home at this sofa And then it's easy Easy to Just feel that and be one hundred percent In that moment to realize how it feels, too.

00:16:51: To win or achieve whatever you want to do?

00:16:54: Okay so what we don't have on the couch are nerves.

00:16:59: I'm assuming at least for me that's the case.

00:17:03: right i would visualize something Or go into process and take myself through.

00:17:08: You have to visualise roughly eight seconds.

00:17:12: So my process is I could get in.

00:17:17: Well, but I just you know.

00:17:18: I don't focus on the jumping.

00:17:21: i focused On The result after that maybe when the competition actually?

00:17:26: I mostly Visualized a day After.

00:17:29: so I wake up in the morning and I feel like yeah I done it And then I try to Feel.

00:17:34: how does It feel When I when I Wake Up the next Day?

00:17:38: and no I have Done it because Today of the Competition is too exhausting.

00:17:43: Okay.

00:17:44: So This I find really interesting, right?

00:17:47: Because especially early on for me the motivation was like to be somebody that's not nobody.

00:17:54: Right!

00:17:54: That is always a goal of my life.

00:17:56: Like sport was my reason... ...that i was accepted and people found who I am and sort of recognized me.

00:18:04: And so day after you have all your calls You've got the press, sponsors All these kind things.

00:18:11: The thing that struck me about you is, the day after... ...you take a plane to Thailand or Asia somewhere and go on a retreat in peace.

00:18:27: Take me there!

00:18:29: Yeah I think it was more than once but always good.

00:18:37: Yeah, for me it's like eleven months of a year.

00:18:40: It is just about track and field.

00:18:41: And that one highlight of the year The championships.

00:18:46: You try to motivate yourself To be the best version Of your self.

00:18:51: Keep up and train and train.

00:18:55: Then I think its so important That you withdraw from that Come back to yourself and who are Regardless the fame and people that want to have photos with you?

00:19:10: or yeah, maybe the press media TV everything.

00:19:18: So I knew it's all for me at least so important to focus on your not a private person.

00:19:28: That is also something i learned while in my early twenties, because I focused so much on sports and winning.

00:19:37: And achieving more and more... Because it was so interesting!

00:19:40: It was fun because i was talented and didn't know what to do.

00:19:45: There were students who still could figure out how to combine sport with university.

00:19:51: So it's always easy for me to focus on the sport.

00:19:58: person yeah, but then I realized after having a severe injury that i'm more than That are more than an athlete Even though.

00:20:07: I love being an athlete.

00:20:08: there's More to life.

00:20:10: so at that point?

00:20:11: I started to focus on doing So much of never expected me To do or some things I thought they would be impossible.

00:20:21: for example too make some back pack travels for a month or so while being professional athlete.

00:20:30: So that's why I started.

00:20:34: this is not an instinctual, instinctive decision where you've just won gold and you're like yep um i'm booking myself first-class meldives resort.

00:20:44: i'm going in uh and hanging out by the beach sipping on pina coladas.

00:20:50: what do you do on these trips?

00:20:52: Um but your willing to share.

00:20:55: I always try to do something that is really unique and you can maybe only doing this country or in the region, but it's something i have never done before.

00:21:07: I tried to immerse into the countries so thats why I prefer not staying at a resort But doing backpacking and travel around the country.

00:21:19: I was also doing couch surfing in Thailand.

00:21:22: That was funny and it was really interesting.

00:21:27: I stayed at a family in India that was known to my mother, so i really try not only see the landscape but also connect with people because if you learn something about different cultures some peace with you.

00:21:53: And then this is just an enrichment and it helps to widen your own horizon, maybe come through some realizations that you wouldn't have in other ways because if you see the life there's also possible on a different place on earth... You may be realized what already has or missing.

00:22:18: And I think we can learn so much from each other.

00:22:21: That's why, like to travel...

00:22:23: Do you think that being an athlete?

00:22:25: You're fighting for centimeters right?

00:22:28: Centimeters that change the course of your career?

00:22:34: Are you looking to escape perfectionism in a way as well when you go out and don't know where you might end up sleeping at night or Where you might hike?

00:22:47: Even though I'm doing like a professional athlete competing on the world stage, i still feel sometimes that kind of perfectionist you would expect someone to be there.

00:23:07: So...I think this is always something that keeps me.

00:23:14: It gives me kind of away from sports or only sports, maybe rather like that.

00:23:19: So I don't feel like I need to be perfect because i realized that perfection is it's changed and flexible.

00:23:28: Because if something is fixed ,it cannot be perfect .Because in any moment Something could change And then you need something else.

00:23:37: so learn more.

00:23:38: my perspective on Perfection is flexibility.

00:23:42: And yeah, so being flexible Is what I learned also during travels because not everything It's going to be as expected.

00:23:54: Yeah and that is also life.

00:23:56: So right now i feel like Life taught me a lot about flexibility.

00:24:02: and um Taught me That perfectionism doesn't just gets you stuck.

00:24:08: Yeah, it's a hard one right where you're kind of I feel like you embody especially throughout the competition.

00:24:17: Like that ultimate tight loose concept A good friend of mine and we always talk about tight lose You have to be so explosive And he has to be So on point and everything has to Be Right there.

00:24:33: The next moment your expected To fly through the air and float and you Have to be in this state and then also between jumps.

00:24:42: I sometimes see you with a blanket, and then you're chilling in the corner And it's kind of... You have to wait till everybody does their thing But then you have be on point Then you have to be ready and going in.

00:24:52: This play of tension and relaxation is so much part your life.

00:24:57: Yeah exactly That was long jump.

00:25:00: So we had like competition takes about one-and-a-half hours maybe Again, like one and a half hours more less warm-up and preparing for the competition.

00:25:13: And yeah in between you have A lot of breaks.

00:25:17: it's different from You

00:25:22: very

00:25:23: different.

00:25:24: It just keep going but first It's different.

00:25:30: Like you said, we have to be there on point but in between can anywhere else and I've for myself realized that it is so important that keep the balance between being focused.

00:25:43: also just let go maybe talk with your coach or another athlete sit meditate depends what i need.

00:25:53: come back then after having a break.

00:25:59: Yeah, coming back to being explosive and competitive.

00:26:03: And trying to win but also like you said never try to win too hard because in the end You rather lose.

00:26:12: so it's really um The fight between those forces.

00:26:16: I would say yeah?

00:26:18: Yeah i mean that's sprinting in general right when you... Because..I mean be explosive enough to produce the power, but relaxed enough to have a long stride.

00:26:31: And it kind of... I feel like there's such difference in what you do with an Iron Man and triathlon is just keep going!

00:26:40: It doesn't even matter if we put one foot in front or another and just keep moving and keeping that inner dialogue going as well where i always had a mantra because what you think about at any time.

00:26:54: It comes into your head and then, What do you deal with it?

00:26:56: So I had a positive mantra which for me was one of those NASA rockets taking off And i saw this powerful image Which is as little boy...I was fascinated by Rockets!

00:27:04: And obviously stuck With Me.

00:27:06: But..what would love to know?

00:27:10: You're on the biggest stage.

00:27:12: I wanna go To Tokyo Olympics And you failed Your first two attempts.

00:27:22: All right, so for everybody who doesn't know long jump.

00:27:23: There's three attempts.

00:27:24: that gets you into the final.

00:27:25: You need to do one One one leap.

00:27:28: and then where did your inner dialogue take you in?

00:27:32: That moment you have all this time to prepare.

00:27:35: there's years of preparation.

00:27:36: They're going through one jump.

00:27:38: What is your inner dialog in your mind when you can't distract yourself by running like I do?

00:27:45: Yeah well i think it happened to me yeah not more than once, that I was in the final of let's say world championships.

00:28:10: That in that moment I was,I think Unbeaten.

00:28:24: and that season so i had like ten competitions before And I was jumping mostly twenty centimeters ahead of everyone else.

00:28:34: So it Was the favorite on that year for For that competition.

00:28:38: And I could not handle the pressure In a way.

00:28:41: so I was at that moment really Struggling And I told myself that, you know?

00:28:51: Like those thoughts coming up of me just going back to the media and trying to figure out in front a camera.

00:29:01: In front all people at home why i failed...and then realized oh no!

00:29:08: The competition is not over yet And I don't want to be in that position.

00:29:14: So at that moment, I learned... ...I think you have like eight minutes between jumps maybe ten and the first three rounds or maybe fourteen.

00:29:26: so not much time to figure yourself out!

00:29:29: Yeah i just realized that I had to forget the past The two jumps were a failure And also forget the future and the fears that I have.

00:29:43: The pressure, I feel about delivering... ...about keeping up with my role.

00:29:50: I sat down and meditated.. ..and really was able to let go of all over it!

00:29:58: Then i jumped and had a forest jump.

00:30:01: so far in my career what I wasn't even expecting.

00:30:04: but if I hadn't taken myself back meditate and keep up with the self-reflection at that moment, I think i wouldn't have won the competition.

00:30:16: You spoke of fear?

00:30:18: Is is fear ever a driver for you ?

00:30:21: For me it's rather hindrance like fear or failure ,fear not being good enough, fear of yeah...I don't know

00:30:32: but you don't think exactly that moment..the fear For me, it's the fear of losing.

00:30:39: That was like... that's one thing really kept going because we talked about before winning.

00:30:45: feeling is so fleeting right?

00:30:47: It's five minutes an hour maybe a day or whatever.

00:30:52: but for me, losing would just sit with me and I mean for a long time.

00:31:01: And I know it's not a healthy process indeed, but... But It is very powerful fuel!

00:31:09: How long

00:31:11: would you sit with this feeling?

00:31:30: Preparing and this Failure would be my fuel to wake up at five And to keep going and do another training session because of course we have slightly different training regiments.

00:31:41: you know I train three times a day, and You can always Do more.

00:31:46: it kind of feels like?

00:31:48: So i think that's the self-confidence thing.

00:31:50: Of actually accepting That at some point is just enough.

00:31:52: but thats why ask whether fear Actually Is a driver something way off.

00:31:57: of course its uncomfortable in that We don't want whether it actually pushes you?

00:32:02: Yeah, so interesting to listen to your story and how you feel.

00:32:07: But I think in that regard we are totally different.

00:32:10: because if i have a failure maybe... It goes with me like three days And then its okay!

00:32:20: Still I would wish for one or better Or had more luck but.. Its ok for me.

00:32:30: So I always try to figure out what i can learn about a failure, so more in that kind of productive having productive thoughts about losing...so What did I do wrong?

00:32:43: What could I do better?

00:32:45: Was it something mentally?

00:32:47: was it something related to training?

00:32:51: And the fear or failure is like hindrance then helps me to fuel.

00:32:59: But what I like, i think is you know having the pressure to deliver... You're just having one last attempt.

00:33:06: that gives me the feel of giving myself and never give up before.

00:33:16: you haven't had your last chance.

00:33:18: but when it comes to normal training process for me its more a positive feeling about achieving my goals reach out for new results and rather that kind of thing.

00:33:36: So you say, You love the pressure which like it's The one thing I'm retired is the One Thing i miss right?

00:33:43: But

00:33:43: how do you go preparing?

00:33:46: And well we talk to Tokyo.

00:33:49: We talked about many other championships Like you said having prepared years For this one jump How do you deal with that pressure?

00:33:59: how Do You turn it into something positive for you.

00:34:02: What is It, That you like about that Pressure?

00:34:05: Well I think its not even that pressure.

00:34:08: Its the pressure of me Not delivering Having two Attempts that are not good enough For the final and then knowing Like okay now i really have to Pull myself together And do it.

00:34:21: It's rather that.

00:34:22: But it is not I like, but also hate in the same kind of way because i love competitions where you know just do your first jump and its so good!

00:34:29: And you know...I guess ill win with this?

00:34:32: I mean..i could have more competition like that at the same time sometimes need pressure to work on a daily basis Because my body releases some extra potential, I would say if i'm in those moments and not if it's just like the first jump when I jumped good enough.

00:34:57: And everything is easy going.

00:35:01: so yeah

00:35:03: It's...it's not comfortable but it makes you grow.

00:35:05: Just on that topic finishing off You said That In Tokyo you had to roll as favorite Four years later.

00:35:13: Oh no!

00:35:16: Maybe I had a role of a favorite, but it was just the difficult year.

00:35:19: I was struggling so much and changed my coach And It was so difficult to come back into long jump.

00:35:27: So i was one of the favorites for sure because i was current world champion But from the World Ranking list ,i was only seven.

00:35:39: also Because i wasn't really good Really struggling and it was the only competition that went well after all.

00:35:49: It's such an athlete thing, right?

00:35:51: Because what the outside perception is... ...and our own perception of favourite underdog are so different!

00:35:58: What do you prefer?

00:35:59: Favourite or underdog?

00:36:00: Underdog?

00:36:02: Yeah I like it but now i'm not a underdog.

00:36:11: Wow,

00:36:11: I mean it's interesting because yeah again what people perceive from the outside and what peoples expectations are of us.

00:36:19: And what we expect can be so vastly different.

00:36:24: but on that note after Paris you said that It left youth with some kind of hunger for more.

00:36:35: and I find this interesting Because once you have a certain level of success in sport Again, the outside perception as well.

00:36:43: You've got everything.

00:36:44: but what do you mean?

00:36:46: What is it that you are looking for from this?

00:36:49: where Is your journey?

00:36:51: Well I mean its It's That i feel like there still some potential left that i could not show.

00:36:59: and i think also long jump As a discipline words.

00:37:04: Not always The person who is the most physical Well trained that wins because Sometimes you have the weather, like wind and conditions.

00:37:16: And also if your too far away from the border of your two centimeter or two millimeters above then it's out not good enough.

00:37:31: so I had a lot of jumps where i could put single pieces together but everything at once.

00:37:42: Yeah, I know that there is much more in me still.

00:37:46: And i think it's like a really good time because when you're... In your thirties you have so many experiences and you are most self-confident.

00:37:59: at the same time You'r having very good physical shape.

00:38:05: That's a stage where you can put everything together.

00:38:08: So I try to make the best of the years that i still have and focus on, on debt You know?

00:38:14: That vision of me just showing my potential And jumping as far as I never did before.

00:38:22: For me it is rather dead than winning medals or winning gold Because like I said... ...I reached every thing that was important And now for me it's more about enjoying it, reaching out to new limits.

00:38:42: At the same time sports is something that always has a connection and not only because I know there are so many people cheering on my role model but also giving back something because I think we could live in a such better society if everyone was trying to give more back than he or she had gotten.

00:39:11: So that's what i try to connect with doing sports, Because sports is about emotion it's about inspiration and We have a platform And that's how I tried To use It.

00:39:25: Yeah...I

00:39:25: like That as A definition of success just using sport and Using your voice and using your platform to do a little bit more.

00:39:36: And on that note, I mean you've said You don't define yourselves by By your achievements But i mean There is that part right?

00:39:48: Your two-time world champion or Olympic gold medalist Europe multiple Olympic medalists like How did you get to the point that you Don't Define yourself by That

00:39:59: Like I said well winning and feeling empty, because I realized it's not about a placement.

00:40:07: It's not About the metal that you can keep in your hands at least now for me doesn't work if its Not giving Me enough For all The hard Work That i was getting into so?

00:40:30: for more years to realize what was the problem.

00:40:34: So yeah, so for me right now I'm really thankful for being healthy and Being able to do my sports because i love it.

00:40:44: but It's also so important too have more in life than just you know.

00:40:48: be More then Just your job For Me?

00:40:54: doing the travels, maybe meditation reading a good book.

00:40:58: just be with myself and be present in the moment.

00:41:02: Learning new stuff... And that's how I learned there is much more to to life than just being successful, and that this is the real meaning of living

00:41:26: for me.

00:41:36: to, yeah success and living a happy life.

00:41:44: Talking on happiness and satisfaction getting forth with the personal best or getting second but being shy of your full potential which would you take?

00:41:58: Which is more...which feels better for you?

00:42:01: The fourth please!

00:42:04: It's weird, right?

00:42:05: How we have this perspective.

00:42:08: Yeah I mean there was a study that came out.

00:42:10: or it is the old thing where kind of its better to have one hundred thousand euros if last year you had fifty-thousand euros than two hundred thousand euro and then last year half a million.

00:42:24: And thats exact same perspective!

00:42:26: Right i'll take winning because winning well...I don't know.

00:42:31: Would you take a win with the sub-par performance over fourth place?

00:42:34: With your best, personal best.

00:42:37: Are that Zen?

00:42:39: I'll put your tenderness to test right here!

00:42:42: Yes but it's easy because i always already have won so much more than many people do.

00:42:50: So It feels like i've already had that million who were talking about.

00:42:56: Now its also okay to have less.

00:43:01: I would like a new personal best because, that's for me what currently is driving.

00:43:07: But if i had never won any competition well yeah maybe also it'd have taken the gold then.

00:43:16: Yeah of course!

00:43:19: It's just one thing where its daily process right?

00:43:23: The whole mind game finding satisfaction and meaning It kind of is never a finished process.

00:43:30: No, and I think there are ups and downs And i don't know about you but for me the longer i'm in am sometimes so tired.

00:43:38: You now have just centimeters and being measured in centimeters?

00:43:42: And I feel like well that was a competition.

00:43:45: That was okay or it was good or not Good

00:43:52: Yeah, I agree.

00:43:54: But at least if you think about it... You're measured in centimeters and i'm measured in time.

00:44:00: How would you feel about being measured by a judge's opinion?

00:44:04: If your figure skater or something like that

00:44:08: It is even worse!

00:44:18: like, sixteen years of being a professional athlete that sometimes it's... you know?

00:44:22: Sometimes I lack the focus on the human and personal development.

00:44:28: And personality in value for each individual!

00:44:32: I know its so funny because sports is about centimeters times maybe also opinion of judges.

00:44:42: but still i always feel like oh where´s the human in there?

00:44:45: On THAT note being a human and going back to your travels, um... And you say that's where you grow.

00:44:56: I think you grow as a person but you also grow as an athlete.

00:44:59: Um what do you learn about yourself when no one is watching?

00:45:05: Oh so much!

00:45:06: Um i don't know even where to start.

00:45:12: Well just any anything that maybe listeners could take away from encouraging them, because I think it's so difficult.

00:45:21: You stand in the middle of a stadium full of thousands of people and becomes this adrenaline-seeking thing where there is almost just a drug of attention but then you have complete contrasts that are out by yourself.

00:45:33: Why would you encourage someone to go out?

00:45:40: Well for me its balance going on the withdrawing and come back to myself.

00:45:47: And be, yeah really just me.

00:45:53: I'm not trying to deal with any kind of achievements or performance...and i think that is the most important thing too always comeback and keep balance like a cell!

00:46:06: Sometimes we forget there's human in us because You know, concentrate too much on performance.

00:46:14: But what do you like?

00:46:15: What do you want to eat or read?

00:46:19: Who are the people that you would like to spend your time with and maybe miss in their current life?

00:46:28: so what is lacking where they may not be looking at?

00:46:33: but I think it's important to keep constantly asking yourself those questions who you are and where you are.

00:46:41: And then I think it's not, doesn't even matter what you do if your... If you're winning or losing?

00:46:47: Or having a high performance job that keeps the bills paid because focus on things really matters.

00:47:00: It is such refreshing perspective when our world is obsessed with KPIs childhood prodigies and always, you know getting further that there is a human side.

00:47:13: And I think that the human side it's actually necessary to get the most out of yourself and have a peak performance That expresses itself in completely different way.

00:47:25: So i'd like thank for your insights.

00:47:28: You've given us Traditionally one closing question for every guest being mindful After we've just discussed the various ways of going mental, when is the last time you went mental?

00:47:42: Well I guess at yesterday's competition but there was not much to get out of it.

00:47:52: It was rather trying to survive today

00:47:56: Yeah!

00:47:56: But even then...I kind of following because this Olympics on and everythings on Closer and closer to the stepping board with every attempt or jump you made.

00:48:09: It showed me that improvement process.

00:48:11: early season again, a champion's mindset!

00:48:18: Sometimes we need more time to figure it out because actually everything is looking good but the competition so far not at all.

00:48:26: I keep it cool.

00:48:27: I'll do it.

00:48:28: It's

00:48:29: early season, i think you will be just fine.

00:48:31: Laika thank-you so much for taking the time!

00:48:33: It has been a real pleasure hearing your perspective and just hearing such different athletes' mindsets... I wish all of you the very best for this season.

00:48:42: Thank-you.

00:48:44: I do wish that you find that ultimate ceiling which is what we are looking at today….

00:48:51: All the very very best!