Holding Other People’s Dreams Without Losing Yourself - Dan Lorang

00:00:00: But let's not say I'm winning.

00:00:02: I would never say, I won a world championship because it is not right.

00:00:06: So in the moment when i don't feel this responsibility for others anymore that pressure then I will immediately stop.

00:00:11: athletes give basically their daily life into the hands of some coaches For sure.

00:00:16: you give your input to adjust and so on but You trust the process ,you trusted the programs And have these responsibilities with me Is something what is on my mind.

00:00:27: But I fall into that situation, and felt like a bad person because things went wrong with some of my athletes.

00:00:33: And it feels really, really bad!

00:00:45: Today's guest is someone who has seen me at the best... My worst?

00:00:51: ...and most are we sure this was good idea moments.

00:00:55: People know him as the softly spoken performance coach behind champions in triathlon and cycling.

00:01:02: Because coaching on the highest level isn't just science It's psychology with a spreadsheet.

00:01:10: It's managing stress, doubt overconfidence under confidence and the famous athletes sentence I'm totally fine which always means The opposite.

00:01:22: great coaches don't just build training plans they absorb panic Deliver uncomfortable truths And somehow remain the calmest person in the room when everyone else is unraveling or at least, so it seems.

00:01:38: Dan Lorang has been that calm voice for me more than a decade through world titles and injuries, reinventions... And every ten PM message started with quick question and ended in an existential crisis.

00:01:55: If there is a mental circus in elite sport he's both the ringleader and the guy sweeping up after elephants.

00:02:02: But here are what I really want to get into today.

00:02:06: Dan hasn't only coached champions.

00:02:08: He's coached almost every type of athlete imaginable, the elite—the almost-elite —the Tuesday Warriors who turn every easy session into a race.

00:02:18: The ones overthink... ...the ones underthink… …the ones that think too much about the wrong things!

00:02:25: He has had front row seats to patterns and mindsets, habits but also blind spots – stuff that separates people going all from the people who stay exactly where they are.

00:02:39: And I'm not going to give away my questions here, but let's just say we're going to explore what he notices... What he has learned and what he believes truly makes a difference.

00:02:49: Today isn't about physiology.

00:02:54: It is about what it costs to carry someone else's dream season after season without quietly developing a twitch or losing your mind because that's coaches tend to do.

00:03:08: So whether you're a coach, an athlete or someone who does heroic things on a Tuesday and regrets them one Wednesday this episode is for you.

00:03:17: today we are going mental not just into his journey but into what he sees in the rest of us.

00:03:25: This Is Going Mental And Today We Are Putting The Coach On The Couch.

00:03:31: Dan After all these years, I cannot believe we still haven't managed to hang out in person and get this going.

00:03:38: We'll get into that in a second.

00:03:39: But how are you?

00:03:40: And where are you?

00:03:42: yeah first of all Thank You very much Jan for having me and like he said it's really something what What is always between us?

00:03:50: the distance.

00:03:51: so when we are honest our listeners we tried It To make it live but it was not possible.

00:03:57: So its a sign That we should continue That kind of work relationship like this.

00:04:04: Yeah, I'm fine!

00:04:06: Thank you very much for that and happy at the moment here in my working place on the APC.

00:04:14: We're also curious about your questions or where these podcasts will lead us to?

00:04:19: And hopefully give some insights from all our listeners as well.

00:04:25: Quick one what's the APCs?

00:04:28: It's the athlete performance center, it is basically a performance centre from Red Bull.

00:04:35: Because you are recently appointed head of endurance sports at Red Bull?

00:04:40: Is that correct?

00:04:41: ?

00:04:42: Exactly.

00:04:42: Yeah, that's a new rule what I have beside my coaching role in the cycling team.

00:04:47: So I swapped over from hundred percent cycling team now to fifty percent cycling Team fifty percent as head of endurance for Red Bull and this is basically crossing different sports.

00:04:57: so from sure triathlon Endurance board cycling but can also be soccer Can be rugby?

00:05:04: The difference boards that red bulls in at the moment.

00:05:07: okay very cool.

00:05:09: I would like to sort of touch on that a little bit.

00:05:13: For people who don't know us, they probably had one year working together at the performance centre and then spent the large part of decade working remotely exactly as we are recording here.

00:05:27: Is it something you do a lot?

00:05:30: Do you think this is changed because technology was the secret recipe or source for our work together?

00:05:39: Probably that's even a more question for you, because to be honest it was the only way where how we could work together.

00:05:46: And its same with all the athletes I coached over past years and still coaching Because of my job situation.

00:05:54: so in new situations being national coach or trial on National Coach in Germany then left Germany from Spain It wasn't possible just me joining there.

00:06:05: So i had to continue my main job.

00:06:08: So then we had, or you have two possibilities.

00:06:10: Always continue the relationship and that's also what I said to you.

00:06:15: probably every coach on earth would like to coach there at that moment.

00:06:19: but use your decision um...to stay with me.

00:06:23: And for me it was clear It will be a challenge.

00:06:27: But uh..you say in really interesting sentence Then i don't have exact wording.

00:06:32: but more likely Using the data is the most objective thing what we can do and you don't like that.

00:06:40: I take our training just because i see your Getting the pain or a CEO probably not at your best.

00:06:46: You just want me to see the data give an objective opinion And you will take the other decisions, uh?

00:06:52: That's basically how he operate over the past decade and I think it worked Most of the cases pretty well.

00:06:59: yeah It's really wild when I think back of it Because The Thing Is as an athlete, once you have success.

00:07:06: You surround yourself with a lot of people who say yes all the time and who say well done all the times.

00:07:13: really it's no use.

00:07:15: I clearly remember one our first sessions.

00:07:20: The look on your face was just a mixture of disgust.

00:07:26: how badly of a state I was in, coming back from injury and something like that.

00:07:31: And remember you were the first honest voice i had many years?

00:07:38: That's quite special because we didn't know each other at all!

00:07:41: All people who did know tried to be yes-sayers.

00:07:56: Not probably, but people say one of the most talented... One of the hard-working triathletes out there with some talent.

00:08:03: That's how we call it!

00:08:05: With big ambitions and...

00:08:08: Thanks for clarifying that

00:08:12: For sure you have talent, but I think he knows how to

00:08:15: do that.

00:08:18: And then a young coach had some athletes there on short distance... ...but they've been tons of other coaches.

00:08:25: so it would be different possibilities even coaches who probably live in Girona already or will join them and still have big respect for the decision taken by your career at this moment.

00:08:39: But probably also this gave some kind of big, I felt a big responsibility with that one.

00:08:45: So it felt like hey he gives you the chance here and i want to take that.

00:08:49: And now while giving him best support can give in my situation With the tools that are have ,with the strengths & also with my weak points.. ..and there was basically our strong point That we were good combination The combination of skills what u brought And my skills, that was a perfect mixture to get out the success.

00:09:13: I think if you ask me what is... What's secret behind it?

00:09:18: We found the right combination!

00:09:19: So everything we brought into it – energy and experience… The way also how to see high performance sport the will to go through everything what is necessary, be successful.

00:09:33: And on the other side me going more analytic way try to calm you down and give your time in all that process.

00:09:41: I think it was a successful combination.

00:09:45: Yeah i think uh...the freedom of one hand structure probably created an intensity at this point that was manageable.

00:09:54: let's call it like that Dan!

00:09:56: The show called Going mental and I would actually somewhere like to start by asking in your mind What going mental means?

00:10:09: To you.

00:10:10: I think people always say okay You are you have a physical performance than the mental performance but to be honest, I don't really believe In it so that you can split it.

00:10:20: So I think one is linked with the other.

00:10:22: That's why i think its important too To know at least a little bit both aspect of an athlete.

00:10:28: So where is he mentally?

00:10:30: and then to also ask yourself what impact?

00:10:33: so my role was clear in our relation.

00:10:35: I Was responsible for the physiology, too Give give the training to given input on On the training results to make the greater program like you always call it doing that kind of master plan.

00:10:47: But I was also aware that with the training i gave You And Also The goals That You Should Achieve In Trainings it has something.

00:10:55: It is doing something with you mentally and I can remember one big mistake what i've made years ago probably, you remember?

00:11:01: You had to do a twenty minute test out of recovery day.

00:11:07: basically...you did the recovery day after there was a twenty-minute test on it.

00:11:11: And you already have bad feeling by starting because this will not work for sure but because Dan's ride it, I will try.

00:11:19: And then afterwards you were so pissed!

00:11:21: Because how can you put a twenty minute test in training the day after recovery?

00:11:29: You know that this could never work.

00:11:32: and at that moment... It came to my mind to say fuck i ruined basically his whole week.

00:11:39: Probably I even ruined a little bit of trust here, so i really have to be careful what i'm doing there.

00:11:43: It can work but if it's not working Come on then we are doing at another day.

00:11:48: But that is not like you thinking You have twenty minute test for your competition and want to perform At the highest level And were not able do it.

00:11:58: That was clearly a coaching mistake.

00:12:00: From this moment on i am more aware Of What impact sessions Can happen.

00:12:05: We are also on your mental performance.

00:12:07: So the outcome of the sessions, not only the session themselves but really what you're able to perform and that's also how much trust you put into these programs.

00:12:16: because this is interesting too.

00:12:19: see okay what athletes give basically their daily life in the hands.

00:12:25: some coaches for sure they'll give input or adjusts so-and-so.

00:12:29: But we trusted a process, we trusted our program.

00:12:34: this responsibility with me is something that's also on my mind, it's mentally what I have to digest day by day and always think hopefully we go through a good process.

00:12:46: Hopefully you can manage over the next weeks or months.

00:12:51: he's at his best physically and mentally in the start

00:12:54: line.".

00:12:55: So i really want into what means for YOU personally?

00:13:02: Okay.

00:13:03: Where would you start?

00:13:04: I see the trust aspect of it, but for you on a personal level even away from coaching where does going mental latcher on for you define it for yourself?

00:13:17: so For myself The reason why i'm working in sport is because this something that is linked to emotion what he's linked also too dead What the sport is doing with you, not physically only but also mentally.

00:13:30: The emotions.

00:13:31: so when I was a child looking at Olympic ceremonies Looking at medals looking at athletes winning and losing.

00:13:37: So both are part of it.

00:13:39: looking at leads to cry because they want something or because They lost something.

00:13:43: that made some things me.

00:13:44: i felt i fell the connection To these situations And the same two coaches?

00:13:49: I felt a connection while coaches were successful or when they got their biggest loss.

00:13:54: And people always ask me, yeah what was how did you feel for example?

00:13:57: When you won a Kona and twenty ninety next especially... ...and I always have this picture in mind like Franz Beckenbauer winning world championships being at the stadium alone in the middle looking at the stands.. ..and just absorbing that moment!

00:14:14: That was literally the picture of what i had in my mind what I absorbed at that moment and also something i dreamed about it before even we went to the competition.

00:14:24: So, I ran on that win on Kona!

00:14:26: That is probably a really good example.

00:14:27: this winning.

00:14:28: so you won anyone...I had this so often in mind when I was on my daily runs.. I went through these emotions already before we even went there....that was really

00:14:38: crazy!!

00:14:39: And listeners who want to say they posted one year ago somewhere on Twitter something like Kona To Win.

00:14:47: The idea came into my mind.

00:14:49: How would it be if two of your athletes will win the World Championship at the same time?

00:14:54: And even now I get again to gain a goosebumps, so...I need to feel that!

00:14:59: Also when i got new goal and what is behind this?

00:15:02: not just winning but.. What's the

00:15:04: mission?!

00:15:04: What are the athletes feeling about

00:15:06: it??

00:15:06: And then emotionally in it.... I go for

00:15:10: it!!

00:15:10: That really fascinating.

00:15:12: you're the one visualizing because for me its interesting right?

00:15:15: For an athlete It's quite easy.

00:15:18: I am racing, i know who is on the start line and i have to beat every single person in that starting line In order to achieve my dream or goal.

00:15:28: But for you Who are your competition?

00:15:33: Who are you visualising yourself up against?

00:15:37: So if u ask me about pictures what im having in mind?

00:15:41: Athletes that I'm coaching go going over the finish line raising their hand winning Even if i don't see it like, it's against a specific athlete.

00:15:51: so.

00:15:51: I don't See pictures like for example you're winning again athlete?

00:15:55: Don't know where ever this okay in The past come with whoever it was so or brownlee?

00:16:00: So i don' t see.

00:16:01: This is basically You Winning Arrays Or an athlete them coaching winning arrays.

00:16:07: and If you say ok but who Who Is your opponent For me.

00:16:11: I try to be the best coach possible.

00:16:13: So that is my mission and i tried to support the athletes on To achieve their goals, and if an athlete achieves The goal then um i'm such a happy person.

00:16:23: And but it's not that i compete against another coach or in a guns another Another athlete.

00:16:30: Probably you also notice because even when we did our competition song It's not so often That We talk about yeah But what Is this Adelaide doing?

00:16:37: What Is that Adelaid Doing?

00:16:38: Basically, I don't care so much.

00:16:40: I try to prepare my others the best possible giving them options in a race So that they can do their best possible race because I believe if they do that They also get the best positive results.

00:16:50: So That's why i'm not so deeply all so before race involved In looking what other coaches are doing and look at what other athletes?

00:16:57: Are you?

00:16:58: it's not that I Don't Care Because this would be not really respectful.

00:17:01: It's more about I don' t want that this takes some energy out of me.

00:17:05: I want to focus on our situation and give all the energy into that one.

00:17:09: So, um... And if you say okay what's where is your opponent?

00:17:14: I also go running.

00:17:15: i have rocky videos in mind.

00:17:17: so just push myself!

00:17:19: To bring me in a mood of saying ok..I hear this music we are going for win or whatever it will be but its always projected onto athletes.

00:17:32: not only do Winning because it's not I'm winning.

00:17:36: It's always the athlete.

00:17:37: so.

00:17:38: but these pictures they come up in my mind and That's something.

00:17:42: what?

00:17:43: What released a lot of emotions in myself, and also motivates me on that journey.

00:17:47: So you as A Coach don't see yourself winning You don't See.

00:17:52: it is a team effort.

00:17:53: even In this kind Of environment.

00:17:56: now i would Always say The it's the athletes who wins And its a coach Who or the Team Who helped to deliver these dreams?

00:18:06: I would not say i'm winning.

00:18:08: I will never say, I won a world championship because it's not right.

00:18:12: The team or the athletes wanted was the help of the team for sure... ...I take you personally when we don't win.

00:18:18: so Don't get me wrong.

00:18:19: It's not that I said okay Because this is the most biggest lie That there are out there!

00:18:26: But if You don't Take it Personally why should I ever do it?

00:18:29: So really also in discussions I don't like This because In the end If somebody starts to judge on, I don't know the work what i'm doing or the results of the adolescent.

00:18:39: For sure take it personally!

00:18:40: I can...I am open to listen and criticise in a different opinion but for sure I'll take it personal because It's major part my life.

00:18:52: so its not that I cannot do this because I will probably take it myself.

00:18:59: Yeah, I'm in it twenty four hours.

00:19:01: In a good way not in the bad But but really any good way.

00:19:03: so this is something what i can.

00:19:06: yeah What?

00:19:06: Can tell you i take It personally if You go If we have A good result or Bad results i will always start first Especially when We Have a better Result.

00:19:14: The First Thing When i'm doing my starting with Myself and Looking okay, what did i do wrong?

00:19:18: what was what went Wrong in Training?

00:19:20: uh what could be have done Better?

00:19:22: Or what Could have i done better before i Start to look at At the other team members or even at the athlete

00:19:28: Why do you think that is?

00:19:29: Because I truly believe in the moment when you stop to do this, You stopped to get better and there's also some kind of...I would say not fear.

00:19:39: A little bit of fear!

00:19:40: I don't want other people getting better than myself so it surpasses me.

00:19:44: So i always wanted keep on running.

00:19:48: Young students come out from university They are full energy they have no family they can travel around or be with their athletes making thousands of lactate measurements and so on.

00:19:59: For sure, I know that but i still want to be one of the best.

00:20:02: So I have to work on it day by day.

00:20:04: And what do you think is my goal?

00:20:26: You are quietly spoken, other people shout to the roofs about this system and this method.

00:20:33: And we're preaching this yet you are quiet and confidently moving one step in the right direction.

00:20:42: is that?

00:20:43: The system that your... That you believe in but also think will be a thing to give you success over others systems?

00:20:51: I think over time you have to find a way of working for sure.

00:20:54: You can adapt it, you learn more every year or everyday even and you adapt the system but then... ...you need to have certain structure that your also believe in.

00:21:03: And i could not say that i would say.. ..that i had mentor , coach said ok thats one thing im following.

00:21:09: No!

00:21:10: I try build this over years with experience different athletes Then step by step make fine tuning on concept But always Put questions.

00:21:21: So always put it in question, so every year I put it into question.

00:21:24: should i do a differently?

00:21:25: Yes or no and...I think that's important without losing self-confidence.

00:21:31: basically im not the guy going around saying I'm best for sure Not far away from there but have certain level of self confidence is also important to give shoulder to the athletes.

00:21:42: For example you said if another coach is successful or achieve something really big with his Athletes, that's the biggest motivation for me.

00:21:53: First of all I'm really happy for them say hey cool nice because they push you.

00:21:57: They said no You cannot stand still we have to make it better

00:22:00: but you are competing with him at That time somehow right?

00:22:03: Because this is exactly

00:22:07: yes.

00:22:07: Yeah Exactly because he want to be.

00:22:09: yeah you get pushed to constantly getting better and yet It's also some kind of competition there.

00:22:16: But it's not that I'm thinking, oh now I am competing against the Joel Filipe or Philippe Saab.

00:22:21: Or whoever are their names?

00:22:22: That I don't really care but see how good they're working and constantly improving with some of them also make some exchanges.

00:22:31: so we normally respect each other because i think same as at least athletes in my ideal world have respect for one another And the same is for coaches.

00:22:44: So we do don't have to be friends, but at least respect for their performances what they deliver and that's why I should also show two of my colleagues in a more so happy to see the other way around them.

00:22:55: That's... But there are always this drive or the will too get better on the end to stay down not only to come dead one moment say Because you are one thing probably interesting for the listeners.

00:23:11: You always ask yourself, can you do it again?

00:23:14: So okay now I have One of my athletes won Kona but can we were Can we do that again?

00:23:20: Can he do then?

00:23:21: or can i do That even with a different athlete?

00:23:23: is it possible?

00:23:24: and you put yourself in doubts all The time.

00:23:26: It's an athlete who constantly tries to show himself in training that He still can perform at that level.

00:23:32: so things what i tell athletes All the Time you don't Have To Do That.

00:23:36: Sometimes I'm doing that even on my own by asking, yeah put myself in question and say fuck.

00:23:43: Was it luck?

00:23:43: was probably luck?

00:23:45: Okay let's try again see If it works.

00:23:50: It's an interesting cocktail of things That come together right because as an athlete you have this thing too.

00:23:55: i remember winning the olympics In two thousand eight And then i didn't win anything until we won Together in twenty fifteen seventy point three worlds.

00:24:03: that was The next thing.

00:24:04: i mean there was a team But whatever, doesn't matter.

00:24:06: It was seven dry years and in that whole time I'd actually started telling myself well you know so what?

00:24:14: it's still good but there is something magical or something That we really need about being able to repeat... ...that performance i found kept nagging at me and kept nagping at me.

00:24:30: Is that..is that something that you can relate too?

00:24:33: Yes,

00:24:34: it's like this for me is also something.

00:24:36: Like I want to continue too.

00:24:38: so For example if you go through a presentation to give an Keynote speech or example i always have in mind hey If we don't repeat as there are no new stories to tell?

00:24:50: I Don't want to tell people stories that are twenty years from ten years because You notice yeah, twenty years ago.

00:24:55: I won this and one day Oh!

00:24:57: I Want us To continue the journey.

00:24:59: continue Continue their journey.

00:25:02: When I give a keynote, i always said hey you need to stay fan and author of your own story.

00:25:07: Of your own book And that's what i try To do.

00:25:09: so continue the store.

00:25:10: it's not over.

00:25:10: we continue and We go on even with outlets who stopped their career like we are doing now something different?

00:25:17: That is why i immediately say yes when You invited me.

00:25:20: we can't continue.

00:25:22: It's not an over.

00:25:23: we stop With one thing probably in The next one and with outlets.

00:25:27: thats What am feeling.

00:25:29: I had once a coaching session.

00:25:32: So, once in my life i did the real coaching sessions so not with a sports coach but was let me call him Life Coach But one of the best out there.

00:25:43: you were

00:25:43: coaching or receiving?

00:25:46: I got a coaching and from quite experienced coach... ...but then he said to me You don't have show the world all time that your are good coach.

00:25:58: this you achieved.

00:25:59: You can now start to do or you can do something different.

00:26:03: I'm getting again, basically a student in when we're in some thing new and not being and not staying master.

00:26:09: then what are doing?

00:26:11: And I thought a lot about that.

00:26:13: Then my conclusion out of this was probably he's right but i didn't lose my passion so I still have my passions.

00:26:20: So why should they do something completely different?

00:26:23: I like what I am doing But I only liked it when

00:26:26: One

00:26:27: one what one thing that drives me is to be successful in what I'm doing.

00:26:30: I'm not saying, oh i want to coach athletes.

00:26:33: But let's say I want to Coach athlete in a successful way.

00:26:36: What means?

00:26:37: Not only all always winning because probably there's not always the possibility to win but Helping Adelaide to achieve their dreams and this Is what really fascinates me.

00:26:47: so When you Say continue to strive for these things And You Continue To Write The Story and to Be A Fan Things are developing all the time, right?

00:26:59: Athletes are developing but also outside factors.

00:27:03: what comes in talking technology.

00:27:05: Talking trains of thoughts and all these kinds of things?

00:27:10: how do you then balance?

00:27:12: What I think a lot of athletes myself included is having this FOMO And looking at shiny things and we need to try this because This Is The Latest Trend and staying steady and true to your method.

00:27:31: Like, what is your system?

00:27:33: A simple one that I can say always when... And until now you never know where it comes in the future but at least as I'm coaching we're able go through this system without bigger injury with consistency so making a really good race preparation.

00:27:52: they performed.

00:27:53: There were some exceptions, but then it was not a performance thing.

00:27:56: But and he was yeah probably some external factors like we had now in Kona for example, but they if We were able to do a certain block And block of the system They performed another.

00:28:09: that give me confidence That did probably cannot be so wrong?

00:28:13: But I'm also aware off that we have two adapts.

00:28:16: So science is making some evolutions.

00:28:19: Yeah Some new tools probably some new training matters and then I try step by step bringing in something new, never five things in a row.

00:28:27: but probably i see oh for example there's heat training.

00:28:30: Okay then let's see how is it working?

00:28:32: What is the physiology adaptation with who can do it and then go step-by-step and implement that?

00:28:37: See what does make the difference?

00:28:39: yes no And like this step-a-step if have to put some thing new into my toolbox or if my basic tool box is big enough.

00:28:48: That´s how every training method ever tool out.

00:28:51: There are a lot of tools out there.

00:28:53: And I try to, especially at the beginning.

00:28:56: over here... ...I look more like brighter picture.

00:28:58: or there's a lot stuff up there and read here.

00:29:00: but closer season is coming The more focusing on the basics.

00:29:07: When I see when athletes doing basic right they're really close to their peak performance.

00:29:13: That shows me experience for last twenty years.

00:29:16: that why i'm pretty confident.

00:29:19: Good the basics are right and that we talk about small adjustments as it can always be done.

00:29:24: Yeah, so that's basically where I take my confidence out of from there.

00:29:27: From results from from basically performance development that athletes having.

00:29:32: yeah But they're huge developments also happening right all the time that come in.

00:29:37: And you've spoken that you have a quiver of athletes.

00:29:42: You know for me I'm one athlete looking for the way, looking for my personal best.

00:29:47: But one of things obviously that i admire The most is That you have athletes who could not be more polar opposites in terms Of how they work?

00:29:56: How They approach...I-i'm Not even sure about the approach..the Approach Is probably when you break it down without the show and Without the you Know fluff around.

00:30:06: It's Probably very often Very similar.

00:30:09: but how How do you value?

00:30:16: Fairness, how do you make treating athletes in the best possible way?

00:30:23: because you adapt yourself and your tool kit trying to find the best for each athlete.

00:30:30: And sometimes those athletes are even competing with one another.

00:30:36: like what's your system to ensure that it is not necessarily fair but the best of every individual athlete.

00:30:44: So I come immediately to the question, just back before you said about different tools and how I keep probably an overview.

00:30:53: so i'm lucky that I work with different athletes and all these athletes have different teams around them.

00:31:01: Let's say I have given number eight athletes and these eight athletes, they have strength in conditioning codes.

00:31:06: Sometimes swim coach sometimes a physiotherapist an athletic coach nutrition is and so on.

00:31:11: And that it quite interesting because all this experts They bring in knowledge into the steam.

00:31:18: then now we come to your question What i try?

00:31:21: To do or no?

00:31:22: not at trial what i do Is when i speak to athlete A i open one book.

00:31:28: So now I'm Dan, and putting on my face that's for Adelaide A. I am one person...I have a hundred percent with that one!

00:31:36: The knowledge the expert brings in is just for that Adelaid.

00:31:41: And even when he talks to me probably she or her has this feeling.

00:31:44: i don't quote any other Adelaids..i'm just fully in there moment after their talk.

00:31:51: ..and thats ...i dont know how im doing it but somehow i developed it.... i close the box I open the next one and i'm speaking with a next athlete.

00:32:00: And it's the same, again hundred percent with their athletes ,with these experts... ...and this is some big sign or big trust.

00:32:09: what I get if atlate A gives me new knowledge for example about nutrition.. ..or I don't know some athletic strengths .I dont use it with Atlate B or Atlate C. The only thing that I used all of my athletes was something which I bring in Some training concepts on something what I brilliant, but if experts are bringing in.

00:32:29: I don't use that advantage.

00:32:31: What an athlete a brings to it for Adelaide B?

00:32:33: I know this is has to be built-on trust.

00:32:37: And so if i can just say It's So frustrating I Always I was like come on Dan you have today has To Be more.

00:32:43: Come On You Can Bring Something In Here and in hindsight after Say it's so True But as An Athlete I Couldn't See it.

00:32:51: yeah, but I fully understand you young and But then comes the question to me.

00:32:56: And so we have, and we had a special situation.

00:32:58: but in general especially in sports like triathlon running if an athlete wants to have a coach for him or herself basically you have to hire that whole person and say okay You are my coach!

00:33:11: That's your job because otherwise it is even not possible For our coach To do their job.

00:33:16: Okay?

00:33:16: You can do several other jobs.

00:33:17: You can work In a performance center and coaching athletes Or whatever Or coaching one another athlete.

00:33:23: Even that model is not, it's in these sports.

00:33:26: It's not so realistic.

00:33:27: probably in tennis you can be one coach and you are with them.

00:33:30: So That's why I'm telling this because i'm talking for all my colleagues And but I always have the feeling that especially In my case people often ask me about This.

00:33:44: With other coaches its just normal.

00:33:46: They coach different athletes women men But in my situation Probably this Because also now as a woman real opponents, so they fight in the race against each other or like Taylor said after Kona.

00:33:59: They train basically... The whole year something completely different and then at the race there are the same moment.

00:34:04: it's a time.

00:34:05: fighting against one another is probably a different situation but I think i'm not in a different situations than other coaches who also coach athletes.

00:34:14: yeah we're doing the same competition.

00:34:16: Yeah, absolutely.

00:34:17: It was just always my philosophy... ...was more along the lines.

00:34:21: I don't pay you to coach me or anyone else!

00:34:24: That's one

00:34:25: of a line- Yeah yeah, you told him

00:34:27: that!

00:34:27: I think it goes Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant as someone And....I didn't have that...yeah..just didn't had that cool i have to admit.

00:34:38: Yeah but it also was funny when we talked about this because you were honest.

00:34:44: You cannot have an athlete-coach relationship if you are not honest.

00:34:49: So I'm so happy that he told me how to want it, the truth and said okay yeah its fine!

00:34:53: We're doing this just with training partner or whatever and thats'it.

00:34:57: Much better than saying let's do it then always carrying bad energy with us i think we would never have done a decade of working together for sure.

00:35:07: Yeah, I do believe like the very honesty that brought us together in you know In the early days probably is what kept us going along?

00:35:17: The way because i mean yeah You build something and in the end.

00:35:25: I don't know if you've ever thought of it this way but for me my life in a certain sense depended on the outcome Of What we Do.

00:35:38: I was so attached to outside results for a long time, but also the process and achieving these things that it almost puts you in a situation.

00:35:50: That your doctor operating on someone on the table?

00:35:54: And do you ever feel pressure of holding somebody else's dreams?

00:36:02: Yes, I do.

00:36:02: And

00:36:05: really fully aware of that.

00:36:06: to be honest and thats also something what it's hard to explain because people they always see yeah the nice things off a job so being there are.

00:36:16: now he is in the press know you give an interview or whatever?

00:36:19: yes but exactly why you're saying and this you carry day by day.

00:36:24: So every data go too bad.

00:36:26: have not from?

00:36:27: let?

00:36:28: take your example again nothing message like oh I feel something on Marie-Ariles or the session, whatever.

00:36:35: It was a good day for me because i knew this!

00:36:38: I was hundred percent aware and probably...I love that would be sound little bit strange but it's part of their high performance job.

00:36:46: And um That why?

00:36:48: also when are working in teams?

00:36:49: In teams..I mean what I described before When you have a physio swim code and so on and so On....It is really important to have these people.

00:36:57: But when it comes to final decision when it comes to responsibility.

00:37:01: Nobody will call the physiotherapist or the athletic coach after the race, once something happens They would first of all contact the athlete and then the coach.

00:37:10: So there is these two people.

00:37:12: they are in a line-of-fire And that's why I want also say that In relation if you have team like this This has to be respected some more.

00:37:20: i am lucky In teams where im working its exactly like this.

00:37:24: But sometimes i hear strange things.

00:37:26: but yeah Why did nobody talk to me and so on?

00:37:30: I said, yeah.

00:37:31: Be part of the team but in the end there is a difference between being the coach like you say really operating on the system And it's something what you carry and i can tell You had one situation that was um when was it?

00:37:45: twenty two?

00:37:46: So i had three athletes injured.

00:37:49: Yeah, twenty-two Three athletes injured more or less at the same time.

00:37:53: I was in Sierra Nevada one evening.

00:37:56: I was alone in the gym and... ...I started to doubt myself, quite deeply so.. ..I always tell athletes you are not an athlete.

00:38:06: So it's not that if you perform bad then your a bad person.

00:38:09: for sure not.

00:38:11: But i fall into this situation where I felt like ima be a bad persons because things went wrong with some of my athletes And I feel really really bad.

00:38:18: Yeah!

00:38:19: That was quite tough moment.

00:38:21: I had two or three colleagues who felt that a little bit and i talked to them.

00:38:28: And only other people, Who are in the more less same situation can really understand what you mean.

00:38:36: if You talk this to an normal People they don't really understand What do you mean?

00:38:39: They think yeah okay it Can happen you know bad luck and so on.

00:38:43: things Are getting better.

00:38:45: No for me It was... There was point where I thought about should I just stop with coaching?

00:38:51: Probably am not good enough.

00:38:52: Probably it's my mistake.

00:38:53: And then the athletes and some of my colleagues, and also my wife to be honest because she understands what I mean Because she is with me the whole journey They helped me come out quite quickly.

00:39:08: so It took a week for two or three days To realize that i'm in Then one-two-three weeks.

00:39:16: So it was not really long.

00:39:18: I knew, that i have to take back control of it again.

00:39:24: So i had to get active and not being the victim for sure.

00:39:28: so i went active again And was lucky.

00:39:32: at least they never came to me saying hey Dan you did something wrong or do we too much of this?

00:39:37: No!

00:39:37: Never.

00:39:38: They always look first over there themselves Then talk as a team then say ok We come back stronger.

00:39:48: That's really nice situation A nice situation to feel that support from the other because normally you give this support as a coach Do the athletes?

00:39:58: But in some situations sometimes You also need That's apart from the added energy and it is also something for example what you could Could do really, really well.

00:40:07: From the first moment on your gift Energy To the people that are working with you.

00:40:12: And this Is not Something that you do just Because he said I give energy but Just by Your attitude your way of Working away how you talk to People it makes a difference.

00:40:21: It make such different, or to say thank you for training session after every session what we did together on the ground.

00:40:28: this is something so special and what gives energy to these people.

00:40:32: I think its little bit same if your have physiotherapist etc.. So u get identity... You cannot buy this!

00:40:37: Its just attitude of athlete who helps you mentally through it.

00:40:44: And the last thing what I want to add is, What i learned over time?

00:40:48: Is...I take it personally.

00:40:51: I take deep into myself but don't let completely get in my heart that I did wrong at beginning because if you do this You can..you dont survive on your business and call now a business.

00:41:05: It's my passion But its not enough.

00:41:06: So then you need to install some kind of block At some point Until here.

00:41:14: But then it's good, and there you have the family.

00:41:16: You have small people around.

00:41:17: you know.

00:41:18: okay this is number one.

00:41:20: And then everything else.

00:41:22: Wow I'm a little bit blown away because It really just occurred to me That as an athlete... ...you stand and feel all of these pressure on your shoulders but Really For you..You've got double pressure!

00:41:39: Have your own?

00:41:41: And carry that of your athletes And I found it fascinating to see how you say that, create some sort of distance for yourself.

00:41:52: Do have any rituals on a daily basis?

00:41:56: Is there something... You spoke with family which i'd love to touch in a second but something personally

00:42:07: For me the best is really moving.

00:42:09: so as you said ritual morning run was my dog really clears my mind or to do sports in general, even if it's not a lot.

00:42:19: I talk with my dog several times yeah?

00:42:20: Yeah

00:42:22: that

00:42:22: also

00:42:22: happens best listeners

00:42:28: but is also running.

00:42:30: just going out and being on the bike doesn't have to be long by moving your body.

00:42:34: so moving helps at least help me get clear mind and digest these things, to deal with that kind of pressure.

00:42:45: And because like I said somewhere before in the moment when i feel that it doesn't matter anymore... In a moment where don't feel this any more..I stop!

00:42:54: So at some point there is no feeling responsibility for others and then I would immediately stop because It wouldn´t be honest towards the athlete.

00:43:03: Because I always say an athlete had one career in sport.

00:43:07: At least normally probably they changed sports.

00:43:09: but let's say one career as an athlete As a coach, you probably have the opportunity to work with several athletes.

00:43:14: So that's why... You have to be careful about this one career and if I don't feel it anymore then at least i would choose another job And use running to go through going thru problems or challenges.

00:43:30: It is not like.

00:43:33: I will think now on specific things.

00:43:35: No!

00:43:35: I start running Then just comes So it comes, and then I... It goes automatically.

00:43:42: It's not a driven process is more processed.

00:43:45: that starts automatically after the first fifteen minutes on run in nature.

00:43:52: That helps me.

00:43:53: if i start like this nothing bad can happen to data anymore.

00:43:56: so its good start

00:43:59: Yeah seems obvious as being in sport but yeah therapeutic effect of running.

00:44:07: why do you think in that moment, you're able to just process it all and all of a sudden from the dark situation put on your rose-tinted glasses or at least some more objective or positive perspective.

00:44:22: Yeah I think there's some good explanation also in science.

00:44:25: so this kind of monotony is how we say in English... It's same if you go for example hiking!

00:44:32: So always doing the same movement which brings Meditation is a big word, but in some kind of this status.

00:44:40: so it brings your brain in that status and thats why these kinds of sport running cycling.

00:44:45: Is really good for where you just have one continuous monotone intensity?

00:44:51: And they give you opens up some kind off possibilities or your brain to To the dictator because in your normal life you are so stressed.

00:45:02: You go from one appointment to the next one and so on, you make...you're doing a job, have family appointments

00:45:09: etc.,

00:45:10: So don't give your brain time to really dive into it.

00:45:15: And I'm also not lying there.

00:45:17: waiting for.

00:45:18: that's what i can do.

00:45:21: That is why l like to move then comes automatically.

00:45:28: I know that this effect is really well showed in scientific research.

00:45:33: Yeah, i mean...I can relate a hundred percent!

00:45:35: We've spoken about it but to me there's almost an addiction to movement right?

00:45:39: Where there are certain effects whatever happens on the hormonal basis It literally what I imagine somebody who has substance abuse.

00:45:48: for me its sports need every single day To get out and process these kinds of things And find balance which is sometimes tough.

00:45:58: You mentioned your family several times and I have to ask as a dad, i know we've both struggled around this topic finding the balance between your passion... ...and you who are what YOU want to achieve?

00:46:16: And your family life!

00:46:18: I mean you're probably on the road with cycling especially all the more Have you found a way

00:46:25: yet?!

00:46:25: Is it a continuously evolving process?

00:46:29: I would love to have your current state of thoughts.

00:46:34: Yes, we found the way but you should never feel like that's it now.

00:46:40: so... You shouldn't always think this is not the usual way.

00:46:43: So if you're away for quite some time and other people call work basically The whole time so basically I'm in that job the whole time no matter if we are on a wedding holiday or.

00:46:58: If you're normal and but for me it's not, is not a problem um... But i am aware this isn't a normal life uh.. And as long as I show respect to them because they have full support especially of my wife Um....I think This is already big step to do.

00:47:15: Hey even after twenty years where were know together over twenty years I still appreciate that you support me in what i'm doing.

00:47:22: and to be honest for her it's really or It's easier.

00:47:26: To do that when she feels the passion When she gets problem, too supported is when?

00:47:31: She felt something Is going wrong like a probably as they okay this isn't good Or we have some problems here on the team or whatever.

00:47:38: if he feels That am not happy with it then she also get.

00:47:41: The problem was because then she said yeah but why are?

00:47:43: You're Doing This And you Are Even Not Happy.

00:47:45: That'S NOT THE DEAL.

00:47:47: So, I like that.

00:47:48: you do it because we're happy.

00:47:49: You feel the passion for what your doing.

00:47:52: and thats why she saw this whole time since were together That i have found something that are really liked to do.

00:47:58: And where is my passion?

00:48:02: For my son, it's not so easy.

00:48:06: Now he gets... He is now getting thirteen.

00:48:08: So yeah, let me feel like okay are you again away on another training camp?

00:48:13: He doesn't like to be honest but he knows that its part of the job somehow and then I try also have some good quality time with him when i'm home or was his family at home I see a lot of people in high-performance sport who is struggling with that situation, to be honest.

00:48:32: And then i have also big respect for it.

00:48:34: so where we got divorced We have problems with the families and So it's uh It was even say its common in high performance but because it's so demanding Uh and sometimes it's even not part Of their thinking process.

00:48:48: Because Yeah there you want To Be Successful You Have To Be There ,You HaveToBeArray.

00:48:55: It''s Just PartofIt.

00:48:55: Nobody Really Thinks About.

00:48:58: How long can a coach really do that?

00:48:59: Should he even do it over the decades, or is this just his job when you are young and then afterwards have to do something different.

00:49:10: I think its what nobody speaks about but what's present And like i said touching wood.

00:49:17: at the moment Im very lucky in my situation because This gives me alot of energy To know that im having a base gives me a lot of energy for the work with my athletes.

00:49:30: Because if... I always compare it to first aid, how should i help an athlete?

00:49:35: If I struggle myself!

00:49:36: If I struggled in life and personal problems How do you find the energy to help an Athlete?

00:49:42: And in First Aid is same.

00:49:43: First of all take care that YOU are safe and then you can also help somebody else because otherwise You go both down the road and that helps nobody.

00:49:52: Yeah, I always say when the plane goes down make sure you take your own oxygen first and then hand it around.

00:49:57: You can help a few more people.

00:49:59: yeah i actually found It to add perspective And this wasn't something that I think Projects over decades like you say?

00:50:08: It's a continuous process

00:50:09: but

00:50:11: I Founded to Actually give me The focus To not go out and Just simply do A session and Go have a coffee or just sit Around and just you know for the sake of it, hang out with a guy and maybe swim a kilometer less or something so I can hang around.

00:50:27: It did kind of create... ...a focus that wasn't there

00:50:32: before.".

00:50:32: That also makes a difference Janne in that science says if you have to focus on what are doing how we were doing it You get different output.

00:50:43: We know in Stavricate sometimes this guys just do as far as possible all training to some free time in afternoon.

00:50:51: We know exactly that the effect of this session is not the same as you do your preparation.

00:50:56: You are in it, make a recovery and there's science... This isn't because we think like this but because science tells us if you're mentally engaging with sessions then also get higher output from those sessions

00:51:11: which makes absolute sense to me.

00:51:13: And its really interesting when bringing back to Suburban which for us was obviously start Probably a love hate phase in many, many ways.

00:51:24: How do you look back on your time holding the highest national office?

00:51:31: In triathlon anyways in Germany and And what came of it?

00:51:35: so for the wallet was It was really intense face.

00:51:42: I learned a lot there.

00:51:44: i also have now to say i sacrifice alot.

00:51:47: So I went there and i don't want that somebody feels no sorry for me.

00:51:51: Don't get me wrong now, it's...I wanted to do that but then when they had really office at six o'clock in the morning and I went home I think eight in evening before I started a job by always told my wife because we were leaving five case away.

00:52:04: I come from lunch I come home for lunch And she still tells me today I never came home for lunch, not over four years that we have been there.

00:52:15: Not once?

00:52:15: Oh my God!

00:52:17: I'm really proud of it.

00:52:19: to be honest... ...I went to training camp some days after my son got born.

00:52:23: My wife was still in hospital.

00:52:25: so when i think now about it.. ..i had to say that's a very high price and Was It Really Necessary.

00:52:33: But here I also have to say probably it was also not my task in that moment, you stay there we find a difference.

00:52:40: Probably because i wasn't young or ambitious and wanted the job as national coach for example last year Responsible for coaches and I always take care about them.

00:52:57: So if they have something from the family, I try that They have their time at home That they get there rest And then come back.

00:53:02: so i like more fresh coaches than coaches who are already on the edge because I know they Are motivated?

00:53:07: I Know If I say you Have to go they Go!

00:53:10: Because The motivation is so high.

00:53:14: When I look Back it was probably not...I could've done It differently or raising hands but I didn't yeah.. I wanted To do best For the athletes.

00:53:23: So like I said, I paid a high price for it but got a lot of the experience there.

00:53:27: It was in general good time with athletes or could work different kind of athletes.

00:53:33: we met together and learned alot from life.

00:53:39: And what i also learn.

00:53:40: and then come back to something you mentioned before...I had concept before started how train people..i changed that concept over years.

00:53:53: So because after that time, I went back to an old concept what i modified.

00:53:56: Yeah for sure but the main concept... ...I had it already in at the end of twenty-twelve and um.

00:54:03: so That gave me the lesson to say if you are convinced about what you're doing Go your way be confident enough to go with.

00:54:11: And uh Okay If he never works then she should probably rethink about it.

00:54:16: But don't get Too much influence by other people, but social media or whatever.

00:54:22: At that time it was not social media But in our times there would probably be social media a lot of external input what you can get.

00:54:32: so Stay on your system Or stay believe-in yourself and that is something where they learned over the time.

00:54:39: Yeah I think...I mean It all became very compressed ,but does make me think how..it may have well been thing that made Dan Lorang into who we know today in the culture and the systems that you create.

00:54:56: You probably created out of that phase

00:54:58: exactly.

00:54:58: Yeah, That's why I'm also happy And really thankful that i got at that moment opportunity.

00:55:03: We also have to say a federation gave me the responsibility as national coach As young coach not so experienced because this was big step for them.

00:55:09: So I am still thankful For their chance.

00:55:14: what they get here It is some kind of dream.

00:55:18: So I knew when i started my coaching licenses, I got asked why are you doing coaching license?

00:55:24: I said.

00:55:25: I want to be national coach.

00:55:26: Oh okay!

00:55:27: I'm coming for Luxembourg so getting German National Coach.

00:55:30: that was strange.

00:55:31: Okay do what you want but um and some years later it wasn't a national code.

00:55:35: That's something special for me Going there For nation going in the case of Germany with guys.

00:55:42: It lived my dream To Be Honest.

00:55:45: I really live my dream There And It was a great time.

00:55:49: Yeah,

00:55:49: that's amazing to see how you evolved your dream.

00:55:52: it would be amiss of me not ask You've worked with so many athletes you've Evolved as a coach over two decades?

00:56:00: You have Been and gone And I'm sure the listeners will want to know What is The thing That separates the grates?

00:56:10: there is something you had to pick.

00:56:12: what?

00:56:12: what's the thing?

00:56:14: Is There Something that you See across all Your Grades That Stands out?

00:56:18: You mean about the athletes or coaches?

00:56:21: The athletes.

00:56:25: Yes, I would say yes and but it sounds always strange when i said this because its...I would say three things.

00:56:32: one thing is they are really thankful for what they get their motivation coming from inside.

00:56:38: so that's why they do not play like I go now for training.

00:56:44: no..they're athletes.

00:56:47: They live in it.

00:56:50: That that's what they're doing.

00:56:52: and And with this comes the passion.

00:56:54: What do I want to bring was it?

00:56:56: Ann They go for the win.

00:56:59: be honest, they go For the wind and when you talk to them You get these really clear and you remember the story first time When i told you yeah let see how probably we go for a podium.

00:57:11: i think that Was The First Time when He Nearly Killed me.

00:57:16: Nothing podium.

00:57:17: we go for the win.

00:57:17: That's also a learning process for coach that you I could never talk to.

00:57:21: an athlete like You would like dead again, so I never did it in the future.

00:57:24: So I learned if because not every athlete is like dad and then okay probably It's ok somehow.

00:57:30: but yeah big really good ones who achieved world championship titles And so on They go for two wins no matter what?

00:57:37: What do you tell before our training race?

00:57:39: whatever?

00:57:40: now We go.

00:57:43: well there you have it.

00:57:43: It's all about perspective intrinsic motivation and the passion that comes with it.

00:57:49: And go for The W!

00:57:51: I love it Dan, It's been a great pleasure having you on here.

00:57:53: i really appreciate your time... ...and want to finish off our signature question.

00:57:58: When is the last time Dan Lorang went mental?

00:58:03: This morning during my run.

00:58:09: But yeah..I had a really deep session with myself doing the run.

00:58:13: I don't want to mention the topic because it's a little bit personal, but this morning i had really good session.

00:58:18: To be honest with that came out was a conclusion of it.

00:58:21: so yeah

00:58:23: and goes mental running.

00:58:23: how else should have been then.

00:58:26: love that you took time.

00:58:27: thank You So much.

00:58:28: as always pleasure learning from wise man like yourself And I Yeah Really appreciate everything than you've done for me But also that you share some your knowledge in some insights without listeners.

00:58:41: thanks so much.

00:58:42: Thank you very much for having me Jan.

00:58:43: It was really a pleasure and yeah, hopefully see you soon in person again.

00:58:47: We'll try maybe next Christmas Yeah exactly.