A Fighter’s Mind - Chris McCormack

00:00:00: And he turned around, and it was that close.

00:00:02: I saw him smile at me basically.

00:00:05: I'm going down you're going up... ...and your done!

00:00:08: It broke me but absolutely broke me.

00:00:10: I've known ya since we were nineteen.

00:00:11: Kicked your ass most of your life.

00:00:13: You could count on one hand how many times you beat me?

00:00:16: Like let's be honest here i am not some upstart.

00:00:18: Ya beat me fair in square.

00:00:20: He is like two.

00:00:21: you have none.

00:00:22: Well said im going to retire from traffic.

00:00:25: Every race you do next year whenever see a name for an entry Im flying into the race.

00:00:28: ill kick your arse.

00:00:30: Faris did a race in Dubai, and February of... ...I got on airplane.

00:00:35: I flew over there!

00:00:37: And I proceeded to pump it when I waited with my watch at the finish line.

00:00:40: I'd been here for like two minutes going, oh, where are you?

00:00:43: But then remember my wife saying that we need calm down Like if you don't win this, your done.

00:00:48: You've said too much.

00:00:49: You have gone overboard This time.

00:00:51: It was very personal.

00:01:06: My guest today is one of the genuine greats of this sport two world titles, six-time triathlete of the year and as of last week a member of The Order Of Australia.

00:01:16: but the CV was never an interesting part.

00:01:19: What always drew me to him is that he did it his own way louder bolder more certain than himself then the rest of us there to be.

00:01:28: people tell Me That He And I Are Opposites and i've heard It Often But Im Not Sure.

00:01:32: I Believe It Since We Never Really Sat Down Across From Each Other.

00:01:36: Long Enough To Have This Chat.

00:01:37: I Am Really Excited Macca, Chris McCormack.

00:01:41: Welcome to McCormac Going Mental!

00:01:44: How are you mate?

00:01:44: Good night.

00:01:45: How are your opposites far out?

00:01:47: Robin call us opposites.

00:01:49: No

00:01:49: no the way we went about it... Yeah yeah You're right We should get into that actually straight away because of perception how people see things like.

00:02:00: you were this brash Aussie kid who came and did all these things.

00:02:03: I was a super structured German guy Probably neither of which are like a hundred percent true.

00:02:09: How do you see yourself in terms of the person and approaching?

00:02:15: The sport of Iron Man, sport of triathlon?

00:02:17: Well I was envious of your era because what i struggled with during my time Was...I didn't live in not-in the training hubs Like everything's now in Gerona or Andorra Or back then it was Boulder..i opted to Live In Los Angeles and Back in those days people wrote about You.

00:02:34: you didn't have the luxury of social media and telling that your own story, or narrative.

00:02:38: You had someone like Timothy Carlson who had an opinion on it... And wrote along with Timothy?

00:02:43: Yeah right!

00:02:43: And then proceeded to write Who You Were and What You... ...and read this thing a month later because they come out every month in magazines.

00:02:49: Hang on just for a second.

00:02:50: so there was always these stories and narratives which were good at selling magazine's.. ..that would pick up a villain and hero and you got labelled as such.

00:02:59: I used to struggle with them early days Because yeah, I did used to state my intentions and what i wanted To do.

00:03:05: I never realized that was a uh That Was blash for me within triathlon.

00:03:09: you had to be A lot more humble when i was asked questions about how i wanted to Do it.

00:03:13: like well?

00:03:13: i've Spent the last fifteen weeks preparing For this.

00:03:16: so i want to win.

00:03:17: You know Like i mean oh you can't say that So always felt.

00:03:20: there was Uh It was a tag that You Know i i learned to live with i was Never happy About And i was very.

00:03:27: i was Very thankful for my friends and peers that were in my circle of trust, to some degree.

00:03:33: That knew me in an opposite way.

00:03:35: but I do think...I did play on it a little bit because towards the latter stages of my career I realised like the villain often got paid well so It was good ways to use it To get partners and sponsors And enter events where i could potentially pay more money.

00:03:53: So whilst I disagree with allot of this stuff said about me Mate,

00:03:58: honestly I think you were one of the first to take your social media and be smart about it.

00:04:02: And use it!

00:04:03: You know?

00:04:03: We're talking how you kind-of used your own channels.

00:04:08: but then also like creating platforms... ...and there was..I think you are the first or one at least to create a digital training platform To create community all these kinds things.

00:04:18: Do you think that's because you were reacting to time when you had to sit there and silently plan your reply, because I mean like you just said.

00:04:28: You had to sit there for four weeks and you couldn't go out and tell the world hey this guy has had one too many at the bar.

00:04:35: i'm actually much more like this

00:04:37: now remember?

00:04:37: The first social media was Twitter And Actually...the First One I Saw Was Twitter and uh..I used To Read it.

00:04:43: It's Like The News Channel and then suddenly I Had Like A hundred Thousand Followers Which Is Like Oh Wow!

00:04:48: Hundred Thousand People Are Reading Because That Was The Only Platform Available

00:04:50: Right?!

00:04:51: And Uh...And I Used...I Remember Using It.

00:04:54: I remember when i tried to come back for the Olympics, actually it wasn't about that time I met you.

00:04:57: When I was trying to make the London Olympics... ...I was staying with the Australian team in Aix-le-Bain just on the French side right near Lake Geneva at an hour on the frontside and we were in trading camp.. ..and I was bored out of my brains so said let's make up a tweet!

00:05:12: And say that we did twelve... And let's see how long it takes people to react.

00:05:18: All our peers used to read these things, so I remember sitting there and the first person that reacted was Aaron Royle who was down training in Spain at a time of the other part of The Australian TV.

00:05:28: They were like oh I call bullshit on that!

00:05:29: That never happened and we had to be there mate... We did it you know?

00:05:32: So i didn't use as tool for putting out stories whether they are true or not but i knew what is true.

00:05:42: opportunity to use something like that digitally, at least get my opinion or say across instead of relying on reporters.

00:05:49: But I used it after that.

00:05:52: Facebook and these platforms came in Instagram later but they was definitely towards the end of my career...I remember everyone gave me a hard time because and I promised my wife that i was going to retire at some point.

00:06:08: And there's sort of this balance, okay what is next in life?

00:06:12: It seems like every triathlete becomes a coach so it doesn't have anything against coaches.

00:06:19: but you know...I don't think I would be the greatest coach But I've learned alot on his journey.

00:06:25: So its first time for me..i got hundreds thousand followers on twitter.

00:06:28: I've just opened this Facebook thing and i've got like seventy thousand followers.

00:06:34: What if I could get all of them to pay a hundred dollars for twelve training tips, right?

00:06:39: Twelve training videos!

00:06:39: Right?!

00:06:40: And then you wouldn't even get three thousand to pay one hundred bucks or three million bucks!

00:06:44: That's how it was... Thinking at the time.

00:06:46: so I got a mate which you do now.

00:06:48: everyone does it.

00:06:49: Now as influences and stuff.

00:06:50: but back then It was cutting edge, I gotta make to film me.

00:06:52: And i went and said okay here's twelve sessions.

00:06:55: he has four swim sessions for bike sessions For run sessions that every single professional in the world is doing?

00:07:00: You guys need To Do it and i'll put it out on my twitter if you buy right now.

00:07:04: i did an on vimeo And i just put our codes.

00:07:06: i didn't send anything off and made when gangbusters, we sold millions of dollars worth of it.

00:07:11: It collapsed that... That was the beginning if at all and everyone's like oh he's giving me a hard time because I'm like one of those cheesy.

00:07:18: but wait there is more!

00:07:19: If you buy now there are three more sessions available.

00:07:22: One of these things..it was very very cheesy But just a testing.

00:07:27: what could not be done.

00:07:28: people had cringed nowadays but it was in the beginning for everything And that sort of kicked off my triathlon community to help move into retirement.

00:07:37: You know,

00:07:38: honestly though when I look at it.

00:07:39: I think from the outside maybe looks cheesy but one thing you've always done better than everyone else is kind of make take people along on your journey like you told a story.

00:07:49: Honestly When you tell a Story Of The Queen K where?

00:07:53: You are Along i'm Like oh my god.

00:07:55: yeah Yeah That's Exactly It.

00:07:56: i can picture it.

00:07:56: you have this Vivid way of selling it and you move People Along with it And that Really Brings me to to your whole approach.

00:08:06: Because if I had to characterize you from the outside looking in, which is why i'm so curious about this conversation... ...I would label you The Fighter!

00:08:13: I always thought that with a boxer of triathlon.. ..I know you're an avid fan of boxing but there's this shot-of-you full arrow on the Queen K filmed out of a helicopter.

00:08:25: everybody's chewing their stem and just suffering to no end And you are sitting here with a smile giving

00:08:32: hang

00:08:32: loose.

00:08:34: And I really wonder, was that for yourself?

00:08:38: For your rivals.

00:08:39: For the camera... Where did they come from?

00:08:41: Well

00:08:42: in particular shot it was two thousand and ten.

00:08:45: We had this.

00:08:45: specialised guys at point.

00:08:47: Iron Man have implemented a whole bunch of rules where there weren't allowing photographers out on course.

00:08:51: It's been very funny time different time in our racing.

00:08:55: So we rented a helicopter with specialised and put the team up, my agent everyone at the top.

00:09:00: so for me that was seeing them saying it's when you're out on that lonely lava fields in Kona.

00:09:04: I saw the chopper.

00:09:05: they looked down there like yeah the hang loose but the shot looks amazing.

00:09:09: And i'm having one of those days which uh... They are rare You know?

00:09:13: Like two thousand ten went onto win the race.

00:09:15: Everyone talks about.

00:09:17: That is your best ever performance.

00:09:19: It Was My Best Ever Day In Kona.

00:09:22: Everything Is Easy Other years, and I hadn't prepared the best for it.

00:09:27: And I've been better-prepared other years than I'd suffered.

00:09:29: but everything was easy.

00:09:30: there they swam, easy bike with a breeze did what i wanted to do control run.

00:09:35: It's just one of those days.

00:09:36: so being relaxed at that part in the race seeing familiar face feeling like we had beaten system The whole fighter narrative I used convince myself get paranoid work my self up I'd see my team and go, yes that's up yours.

00:09:54: I mean got you where we're winning it?

00:09:55: And use all these little pieces of nourishment to push me on my journey.

00:10:00: so That was a remember that vividly as Eric win in the hospital Bobby B hand from specialized Scott Fairchild My agent an all-the-team and were like Yes You can't keep us off the course We're out there.

00:10:11: It does feel like you generally used that kind of friction Between like you just said, if somebody it told you.

00:10:20: You couldn't do it That would almost double your energy and you'd have these things.

00:10:25: you go out?

00:10:26: We call the shots but then you back up.

00:10:28: there's a lot of people that sit down complain and Do all kind of yeah or feel like they're being hard done by Whereas the impressive thing was always you actually backed it up And then he came together.

00:10:41: Is that something really gave you this positive energy, that you fed off?

00:10:45: I wasn't positive all the time.

00:10:46: No

00:10:47: no!

00:10:48: That's what i mean exactly.

00:10:49: Yeah

00:10:52: for me You know...I saw talents like you and I always felt as if was a bit of an imposter in this sport.

00:10:59: And look at your career.

00:11:00: go wow..i have achieved In my head oh wow....and did it my way.

00:11:04: Maybe i was paranoid or semi aggressive but to make friends I had a job to do and i need to win this race.

00:11:15: And we know there can be only one, the sun will rise after that day.

00:11:20: so it's either you or its not!

00:11:21: So as long as people don't like me... As long as they get my result afterwards.... I was relatively easy but I did quite well in short course racing especially during junior years.

00:11:34: It was non-drafting.

00:11:37: everyone did olympic distance In Murakami, I was there when Les McDonald the former president of ITU opted to change the Olympics distance to draft legal.

00:11:47: And i remember with Hamish Carter who went on to win the olympics in I-IV and uh...there's Miles Stewart everyone..and a whole bunch people were arguing that we'll never have to ride a bike again!

00:11:55: There is all this change which has been massive change right?

00:11:57: Like I mean a massive decision to get the sport into the Olympics, which was the right decision.

00:12:03: In my opinion it's all a die-hard.

00:12:05: But then there were these split in the sport at that time and I always had quite good time trials over forty kilometres.

00:12:11: so... And when i grew up as a runner ,I've always had a swim weakness if anything.

00:12:15: but The non drafting was actually more suited for me style of racing At this point.

00:12:24: But when it shifted, there was all these new athletes that were coming.

00:12:28: The Simon Whitfields who went on to win the Olympics with Second U in Beijing and they're different looking athletes.

00:12:33: and they'd come through high performance programs.

00:12:37: And you guys are just a net court.

00:12:40: for me.

00:12:40: It's caught seeing Courtney Ackerson.

00:12:42: is I think he's your age or bit younger than yet?

00:12:44: No older then yeah Yeah For me When i saw Courtney as an eighteen year old kid Australian Jewel Olympian World Junior Champion the best.

00:12:55: I remember thinking, i've got three or four years before this guy makes me extinct.

00:13:00: only just somehow get good at this Ironman stuff will move to America and do non-drafting because this draft legal on dead young Fredino coming up.

00:13:06: Harvey Agoma is doing amazing things.

00:13:08: athletes like Brad Carter felt and I'm like get out of here.

00:13:11: This has given too hot to handle.

00:13:13: so but when I went across a long distance racing it was first time that started getting into labs.

00:13:22: I was too big, as a power athlete.

00:13:24: You know?

00:13:24: I got two bigger quads and two bigger arse... ..I didn't burn fat well.. ..and all these things that were told to me, it just pushed on the swim bike.

00:13:33: run!

00:13:33: But you'll be alright.

00:13:35: As you know, Iron Man is completely different beast.

00:13:37: so for me Kona was a race I loved.

00:13:42: watching as a kid and the mystique of it, in that two hour package they used to put on NBC.

00:13:47: And I made this eight-hour event seem like... ...the most magical day on earth you have experience one day!

00:13:54: It's very different situation when you're suffering on your own.. ..and then went into first race thinking I can't beat these Peter Reeds guys in Olympic distance by ten minutes.

00:14:06: so.... multiply that by four, I'll beat it by forty minutes in an Ironman.

00:14:10: Right?

00:14:11: And so my first corner...I think i had a thirteen minute lead off the bike myself Thomas Hellriegel and Jürgen Zak we have thirty minutes in front of The Defending Champion.

00:14:20: I high-fived my father running out of town going right.

00:14:23: this is like stealing candy from a child mate!

00:14:26: Like I mean this was the easiest day in history sport within ten kms walking with him fifteen kms cramping at twenty one kms out of And I had to deal with, you know the repercussions of that.

00:14:39: The magazines writing oh the cocky Australian.

00:14:41: and That's where all came from.

00:14:42: but i Had this real difficulty With that longer distance in hot conditions if he took me To europe or raf for frankfett on one Of these races Where the heat wasn't there?

00:14:52: And i could use my power On the bike and fast bikes so i didn't lose another ironman when austria won All those.

00:14:57: but kona was a real struggle.

00:14:59: For me.

00:15:01: It was the most important race in my career, and a lot of athletes say that because it's Kona.

00:15:05: But for me, it was... The race presented the most challenges to me as physiological challenges and mental and emotional challenges.

00:15:13: dealing with the failures and the expectation and not getting what you wanted and then winning it.

00:15:20: That year happening so fast, because you win it and then chase all your sponsors.

00:15:24: And suddenly back on the start line again feel like that was quick!

00:15:28: Then losing to another Australian which is a difficult time... ...and everyone feels as if changing of guard but not ready.

00:15:36: It's been beautiful journey.

00:15:37: I love Kona But it was a race i didn't enjoy.

00:15:40: I loved it for its history and its mystique, but I would love to make way prefer to watch the two hour coverage on television when like i did as a kid because that was A much nicer day To experience in suffering out there.

00:15:52: But then take me into that Like why kona?

00:15:54: Because you know When you have this elusive thing right.

00:15:57: okay Yes You have the NBC package And you Have kind of It is...I mean we've often said it's a cliche..but it Is a Wimbledon of our sport In many ways.

00:16:09: I mean, you were printing money at the time.

00:16:10: You we're getting record appearance fees Frankfurt Roth.

00:16:14: everybody was loving you your superstar in Germany and Everybody just love this sunny boy from Australia.

00:16:21: And here you are Getting by your standards slammed in-the-face.

00:16:27: From this race i mean five times Five consecutive years and those Those are long years.

00:16:32: and for my experience?

00:16:33: I mean question yourself so What do you think it was that kept you knocking on the door of this very race?

00:16:42: Well, it was easy.

00:16:43: It was the race that made me want to do the sport in a first place watching that MBC package and we had... I grew up in the Sutherland Shire south of Sydney And there's the home of Greg Walsh & McKeeley Jones.

00:16:54: They grew up by chance.

00:16:55: You know they were quite famous in my area.

00:16:58: They're ten years older than me But i used read their local paper and these guys are conquering Amazing challenge in Hawaii that I used to watch.

00:17:06: and you know, what's the eighty seven coverage on television with my father?

00:17:09: With Greg doing his first year.

00:17:10: What's eighty nine when iron war?

00:17:12: everyone talks about the Ironweb at third place.

00:17:14: That day was a young Australian called Greg Welsh right twenty minutes behind those two boys.

00:17:18: But Greg Walsh and I remember going for me.

00:17:20: He was the first person he come back to my athletics club.

00:17:22: but I could see and like you know it was outside of magazine, he's a real person.

00:17:27: And I'm like well... He breathes, eats the same food.

00:17:29: look at me!

00:17:30: You're eating a sausage sandwich?

00:17:31: I do

00:17:31: that!!

00:17:31: You saw..you could relate to the person.

00:17:34: so i thought if he can do it then I can do this.

00:17:35: So always wanted to compete in that race.

00:17:38: It was always a race.

00:17:39: And my dream is to be like Wolfgang Dietrich, the great German who used to lead off the bike right?

00:17:43: Like.

00:17:44: I just thought if all are doing Kona and never imagined i'd win it was Just lead at Harvey halfway.

00:17:49: because they've got on television Always go in the NBC coverage and lead of the bike then man.

00:17:53: I'll be on TV.

00:17:55: So as he young sir Was an ambition and a dream to do it.

00:17:58: and Then it Is sport without question especially when you're living United States.

00:18:05: At that time, there was no seventy point three racing.

00:18:08: That came I think the first World Championships as a six but at The First two or Three of those No one really.

00:18:14: they're in Florida and They were like Two weeks after Kona so no One sort Of did them.

00:18:20: And So Kona Was Sort of everything In the States?

00:18:23: It's just A different Time for me.

00:18:24: i wanted to do it.

00:18:26: i expected success To happen much quicker Like i was sort of Forced Across.

00:18:32: my mother passed into Thousand Just before the Sydney games and they opted to leave me off.

00:18:36: The Sydney team Understandably at the time I would have argued not but i wasn't in, right headspace To do it.

00:18:43: And uh...and..I got the shits with National Federation And I was like, man.

00:18:49: I've given you three years of my life on world number one and I'm giving you two.

00:18:53: World Cup series chair.

00:18:54: It'll be nine weeks... Like i've done all the stuff he wanted me to do it now You're gonna leave him at the Olympics?

00:18:57: I promised My mother on a deathbed that go the olympics are.

00:18:59: Now you're going to rob me off.

00:19:00: That's so bitter!

00:19:02: So I moved To The United States just met my wife Emma.

00:19:05: She is my girlfriend At time when we opted to Leave Europe and move to the states did the non-drafting races and found my real love Of the sport again over short distance.

00:19:15: And I remember coming back in two thousand and one.

00:19:18: In two thousand, we had a great year.

00:19:19: but everyone was saying oh he's winning all the World Cups and is winning all these American races because all of guys are focusing on the Olympics so that everyone has got All good.

00:19:27: guys have made the olympics focussing on that and thats why Macca going well this years.

00:19:30: So i'm like in two-thousand and one.

00:19:31: im going to desi... That Was My Rampage Right?

00:19:35: And so probably my best short course season ever.

00:19:37: I won Google games ,I won everything world series that year and um.. ..And I came back there was new high performance director, a man called Bill Daverin in Australia.

00:19:47: He'd been the coach of one of my peers and he said look I know you want to go to the Olympics why don't come back fit into the structure when let's go for Athens?

00:19:57: And i spent two years in the States had found a good base there with sponsor base so they've found great training...I say Look!

00:20:03: Let me do that but let me stay where I am.

00:20:05: it is working right.

00:20:07: well I just rubbed a working formula going back into their system, which was a funny time.

00:20:12: Now you don't have to do that but it's just different times.

00:20:16: and he said look I can't do

00:20:17: that.".

00:20:18: And he says,"You've got nowhere else.

00:20:19: where are we gonna go?

00:20:20: Where're ya gonna do an

00:20:21: Ironman?".

00:20:21: Then I say yeah!

00:20:21: That is what i'll be doing.

00:20:22: if you won't let me do

00:20:23: this!".

00:20:24: He laughed at the end of two thousand one and registered for my first iron man April of twenty-two which was Iron Man Australia.

00:20:32: That was when I said, I'll show you.

00:20:33: and they qualified for the Commonwealth Games team.

00:20:36: They had to put me in there trying to stop me from doing the Iron Man.

00:20:38: So did he die?

00:20:38: I'm an Australia one.

00:20:40: I'm in Australia which qualify me for my first Kona.

00:20:42: And I'm like well this is a journey on.

00:20:43: I'm on and actually In my head thought oh go to Kona Oh win.

00:20:47: that ticked out off and then i'll come back sort of what Christian Blumenfeldt Is Actually Doing Now.

00:20:51: but I went that and Then I'll Come Back and I'll do The Athens Olympics because it's a hilly course.

00:20:56: But yeah as I Said My First Kona I Failed in two thousand Two When I failed again in A three and that Was when I went.

00:21:01: look I can't I'm going this direction and i started looking at long course racing, moving completely away from short-course.

00:21:07: Yeah maybe just quickly for the listeners who are not so deep in the triathlon world.

00:21:11: So For The Olympic Distance And The Olympics It kind of is that we're governed by federations right?

00:21:17: We have national coaches ,we've got these structures you can actually only apply to race through your federation Whereas Ironman and Seventy Point Three It's actually, I used to call it high-performance sport and professional sports.

00:21:32: Like you go into... You are a pro!

00:21:34: You build your own team.

00:21:35: You have all these people around you that mentioned earlier in the chopper.

00:21:40: That is probably half of them.

00:21:41: There will be physio and then there'll be training mates… All those people who suddenly have to organise but they also have freedom of choice.

00:21:48: But what i find so interesting What were just saying was where do we point our lens?

00:21:54: Because if you're doing well We all tend to have this negativity bias.

00:21:59: It's like nowadays in social media, you get a hundred comments and there is just one.

00:22:03: One?

00:22:04: That

00:22:05: drives your insane!

00:22:07: And it really does seem coming back for the Fighters mindset that... ...you get energy from them You turn into something positive.

00:22:15: Thats what I meant earlier with positivity.

00:22:18: Where do we get those from?

00:22:19: Like how can take the energy and twist around crunch That and be like, okay.

00:22:25: I will show you.

00:22:26: uh i think that's just the fight in me i?

00:22:28: Think if i'm a middle child on my middle i have an older brother any younger brother.

00:22:31: so i think Any Middle Child is always You know fighting against The Older Brother but making sure the Younger Brother has Kept In Line you Know.

00:22:38: So it's An awkward position to Be in.

00:22:40: so i Think.

00:22:40: Naturally i was ADD And A fighter But i've Always Been A person that likes To prove People Wrong.

00:22:46: i've Proved My Point.

00:22:46: no you don't Believe Me look There It Is in Writing you know.

00:22:49: Like If you say something, I'm going to go and show that it is.

00:22:53: It's just been part of my personality, a part in

00:23:00: nature.".

00:23:07: winning some World Cups that year, and I was just coming on as a good athlete.

00:23:11: And my childhood idol is an athlete called Brad Bevan who-who's an Australian great Australian racer... ..and I was in this sprint finish with Brad to win the Australian Championships in nineteen ninety five or ninety six.. ...and um....And i should have beaten him but I remember going like.

00:23:28: I can't believe I'm running with Brad back you know?

00:23:30: The hero worship allowed him do what he did when he pulled away one of his brad.

00:23:34: and And I watched that race and think, man like they should have pumped him back.

00:23:39: Like I was so much the better

00:23:40: athlete.".

00:23:41: And i realized then That you don't need to be The best person on the day To win.

00:23:45: You just need to Be the person who in their head at that time Believes They can win.

00:23:48: So it's In the same way that I second guessed myself with Brad and lost races or should Have maybe other people second guess themselves?

00:23:53: So thats why I used always in the press conference State my intentions Tell everyone Im great form and then highlight Everyone else weakness.

00:24:01: Then everyone is trying defend Themselves.

00:24:05: I'm the best biker and you know, i'm going to ride a bike hard.

00:24:07: You have six minutes back in the swim mate.

00:24:10: it'll be seven this weekend.

00:24:11: Do y'know what i mean?

00:24:12: Like... And you tell them their weakness It has to play on your head because they would play mine.

00:24:16: That's how I used to approach my racing.

00:24:19: is its like in tennis watching unforced errors that you can win a Tennis match not through forced errors but for them making mistakes.

00:24:27: So if get into there ahead of little bit That's not my only part of my asking, but if I can get them in a little bit and they second guess some question things then maybe... ..I can control the narrative a little so or control the outcome over race.

00:24:41: And as you know racers are one-in-moments.

00:24:43: They're not one over a... In one moment we go from being with someone to be way behind.

00:24:49: So those moments are key.

00:24:52: If they second guessed that do it?

00:24:53: So i think fighting mentality came from understanding that The psychology is an athlete.

00:24:58: It's just the way I am and putting that internalized pressure on myself, stating my intentions to put it out into the universe in a make-it real.

00:25:05: And my mother used say all of this time words are powerful you know?

00:25:09: Words were very very powerful things.

00:25:10: so by putting an answer universe was like oh well i better do now otherwise we're gonna look like a real fool!

00:25:21: Yeah, but that's the beauty about hindsight.

00:25:23: Nobody remembers those moments.

00:25:24: people remember the moment when it came off.

00:25:26: and because It's so interesting right like Iron Man eight hours whatever Whatever it is There's So much inner dialogue going on And I've heard The quote from you That athletes are fragile plants Like we're fragile freckle beings.

00:25:41: Take me into that Because i found that really Interesting.

00:25:44: Well, I know that for myself.

00:25:46: So whenever i made a statement about athletes and other...I'm really it's just like holding your mirror up to my self you know?

00:25:51: And how fragile I can be!

00:25:53: You're in the circle.

00:25:54: Your family particularly knows that.

00:25:56: Like when I walked out of the doors in Kona and they were looking at winning the race They walk around trying not being confident.

00:26:03: Legs are showy so I rub oil on them To make sure their look fitter You know, all the little things you used to do just in case someone saw you.

00:26:12: And then the person who were when he came home and was scared a bit nervous and scared of your team or running around changing.

00:26:18: should I use this drink bottle?

00:26:20: Or that drink bottle... All those little things where they said well I realised I am fragile because I know my own weaknesses.

00:26:26: When we have weaknesses our points are vulnerability.

00:26:32: We try hide it from the world but I knew people knew that and i used to try and pry open other peoples vulnerabilities, But I definitely knew mine.

00:26:40: And it was a matter of dealing with those... ...and understanding that I am fragile little plant.. ..And if you let your mind wander!

00:26:49: I used have this saying in my say- Stay present stay present stay presence embrace the suck.

00:26:52: be here don't drift because you're like, oh shit I don't know if i can do this.

00:26:57: This is uncomfortable.

00:26:57: he's moving too far and you start thinking of something down the road.

00:27:01: so I used to really work on being present and embracing the suck understanding that okay when it gets uncomfortable... ...I only need to set smaller targets.

00:27:12: let's run to Hinalani Road and then we'll assess what to do there.

00:27:15: You can suffer for another cane, it's

00:27:17: nothing.".

00:27:17: And as you know these storms come and go and suddenly feel good and goes away.

00:27:22: I think i was very good at those moments.

00:27:24: when look back the races that did fail.

00:27:28: physically I was probably capable of pushing much.

00:27:30: so let my head get better in me at this moment and embrace dark side of force instead being a Jedi Darth Vader and let that negativity creep in, shape the outcome.

00:27:43: And suddenly you accept things you wouldn't accept... Oh I'll just walk a bit!

00:27:47: You know when you accept thing's that have been fighting for this whole journey?

00:27:51: Once once you let those things you would not accept as winning mindset then it is like a dominoes they fall over.

00:28:01: so yeah thats why i say can be very fragile.

00:28:05: I could be very, very fragile and that's how I viewed other people.

00:28:07: If i can be then you can't be too.

00:28:09: so thats why it was always attacking in press conferences or as I said back there I would do an article someone had write about it.

00:28:17: they go oh well who are your things going to win?

00:28:18: And I deliberately leave people out like hey mate he mates!

00:28:22: Then I knew they'd get the shits.

00:28:24: but its just mind games trying to create anything potentially working my favour come race day.

00:28:30: Yeah,

00:28:31: I can so relate.

00:28:32: Obviously i think most triathletes nowadays had the tanning oil.

00:28:36: not the tanting oil but like whatever oil standing by the door just in case you know somebody it Just made You look a little bit more tanned A Little Bit More Fit Like It.

00:28:44: Spend Enough Time Outdoors To Really Believe That?

00:28:50: Because Exactly Like You Say Embrace The Suck.

00:28:52: When Embraced This Suck Turns Into Eye Suck.

00:28:55: Yes Yes Its Very Short Bridge And from the outside, it always looks like everything's going perfect.

00:29:02: Everything is smooth and you're all forever in that winning mindset.

00:29:06: but its hard to bring yourself back right?

00:29:09: All of a time

00:29:10: It very difficult.

00:29:11: I did at once in O-Nine and i still count as probably one my best ever Ironman races.

00:29:17: Definitely My Best Kona.

00:29:17: I finished fourth.

00:29:18: I was having four minutes From The Wind.

00:29:21: Had My Career Worse Swim Cannot Put A Thing On It Still To This Day.

00:29:25: I don't know what happened.

00:29:26: People are What Happened In The Swim.

00:29:26: I'm Like I Don't Know Got Out With Norman Stadler.

00:29:29: put it that way, right?

00:29:30: And I was like fifty-two minutes or something.

00:29:33: Just do not know.

00:29:33: just felt terrible in the swim had an amazing bike ride, rode through the group caught them going up coming back from Harvey and then dropped him out near you know sort of towards um...just before scenic lookout got a gap about four to five minutes had Chris Lee at out on the road and i thought i was gonna win!

00:29:52: I fell apart uh..about ten miles coming up the hill at Pilani and started walking.

00:29:58: And I remember feeling sad.

00:30:00: I remember thinking, oh man here we go again you know?

00:30:04: Doing an F last year with the mechanical now and walking am not going to make this race i'm done with it!

00:30:09: And then...and then..I remember thinking It was also that a year just We were pregnant with our third child.

00:30:16: my wife and I had two girls who'd started school.

00:30:18: they've been away so much You know

00:30:20: what?!

00:30:21: Im just gonna honour them like im walkin' the finish.

00:30:23: They're here come all this way.

00:30:25: So we're being so selfish, let's just honor them and do the best I can.

00:30:28: And I remember walking for a bit.

00:30:29: my member guys passing me Rasmus Henning Tarenzo Bazzani slapped me on the bar when i started running For A Bit and uh...and I got out to left turn back then used To Turn Left into the energy lab.

00:30:41: it used to be run down to The Bottom Back.. ..And I Remember It.

00:30:45: Tarenza ran past me.

00:30:46: that was When Tarenze Came Passed ,I think I dropped back to about tenth place.

00:30:50: And he's like, come on.

00:30:51: He'd been a training partner when I was like Come one.

00:30:53: we've run this a million times and i started running it on you.

00:30:55: When?

00:30:55: You're being walking and running drinking at the A station just fueled up.

00:30:58: remember thinking actually feel all right.

00:31:01: It's just in my home.

00:31:02: So and I literally ran through The energy lab around the fastest back.

00:31:06: ten K ended Up Just missing Andreas Ray alert for third.

00:31:09: I beat me by eleven seconds and and I Ended up fourth from today as brilliant performance.

00:31:14: and that Was where I came Back From One of those negative spirals and I fed off the energy going okay catch the next one, catch the Next One.

00:31:21: And i saw definitely the positive change in The whales approaching the racing and uh Going from being a victim.

00:31:28: and oh it's too hard.

00:31:29: let's worry about the kids and another ones can't pass me to.

00:31:32: I feel good Let's catch him!

00:31:34: Let's Catch the Next On that and you just Fed Off Itself.

00:31:36: so...it is A tough bridge To get back over but every now and then when You do Get there and you Do Cross it and have That moment with Yourself very Very Satisfying I remember that race vividly and within my personal stash of races, it's one of my favourites for myself.

00:31:54: That i really fought a tough battle against myself to feel like I won.

00:31:58: Yeah

00:31:58: those moments internally right?

00:32:00: The biggest and best racers are not necessarily always just the ones who have the title come with the crown.

00:32:05: Like you said Kona is that race which came out there despite your not loving it as much right, to come out and it's not as glorious.

00:32:17: I'm sure in cycling you'd have the parallel of Paris-Roubaix which looks a lot better on TV until your fork breaks or something happens with... It is just so romanticised!

00:32:29: Take me into a couple of those races where you really thought this was when you went mental?

00:32:36: This were you got yourself out of a rut being stuck.

00:32:43: I

00:32:44: think one of my good ones was coming second in two thousand and six.

00:32:48: So the year before in Kona, I'd finished fifth that had a flat tire And uh... Had the fastest marathon and i'd finish fifth and.. ..and I remember looking at.

00:32:57: you know when you go up You look at results after it and then you're trying to look for any positive To going into next few season.

00:33:03: Well if just stay with him at the time back then you have to repair your flat tires right?

00:33:08: Like, it was a pro.

00:33:10: Tubularist too that we're stuck onto your wheel.

00:33:13: Put the tire on, pump this stuff up left and all you know like so I lost probably two or three minutes but you lose to group.

00:33:19: And i remember saying okay if I got off with the group and I'd given myself...I would have come second there here right?

00:33:22: Would've could of shoulda.

00:33:23: But thats how justified going into my.

00:33:26: yeah what comes second?

00:33:27: I'm working his kinder thing out.

00:33:28: Two thousand sixs Im gonna win!

00:33:30: And uh..and I said-And I run the fastest marathon.

00:33:33: before That I used try get away in bike.

00:33:35: I wasn't very confident in dropping these two forty marathons Day by day in Kona.

00:33:42: So, and all my team kept saying you can run this man You're riding.

00:33:46: if she's scared of your boroughs just stay on the group me like stop, you know The race Just run a low-ended marathon.

00:33:53: And yeah, and in two thousand five I ran the quite quickest marathon today.

00:33:56: so said okay Maybe i got to marathon him.

00:33:57: he'll do it at two forty four?

00:34:07: Well, that year they brought out the speed suits which were now common for everyone.

00:34:10: The Blue Seventy was an old training and I don't know if there's still around... They made this speed suit but back then we used to tuck our singlets into our Speedos right?

00:34:19: We could wear one suit!

00:34:23: And so..we got out of swim and it was a member sitting on Farisal Sultan's feet A German guy Aniko Larnos and uh good swimmers and i felt really comfortable in his swimming.

00:34:35: get on a bike thing and I'm in the front group in Kona.

00:34:38: Yeah, beauty swim done we're on our way you know?

00:34:40: You do that blast out of town.

00:34:42: And uh...and i remember passing Tharris.. ..And uh....I said no mate!

00:34:47: I thought it was on the front and then I said okay he hit it- I said who's up

00:34:50: front?!

00:34:50: I thought It was like Jan Siberson or someone right?

00:34:52: Like Someone Who is just gonna be able to ride and catch later.

00:34:57: and He Was the record holder for The Swim For many Many Years.

00:34:59: I think he still might Be.

00:35:01: and um and he's like mate.

00:35:02: its Norman Stadler And I laughed.

00:35:05: I remember laughing at Tharris going, no seriously mate who is it?

00:35:10: It's Stadra!

00:35:12: So he had a wetsuit on because everyone was like there's nobody seen this blue seventy speed suits.

00:35:16: right that changed the whole swim game.

00:35:19: Everyone in following year had them but this year He was first person and only person ever used him.

00:35:24: What do you mean?

00:35:24: he has a Wetsuit?

00:35:25: I'm chasing.

00:35:26: we never saw Norman so he ended up getting big lead off-the-bike anyway And to give some context of people that in two thousand and four Norman Stadler had won, I'm in Hawaii.

00:35:36: In two thousand five Ferris off Sultana one both Germans in two hundred six.

00:35:40: this is a race.

00:35:40: Both those boys didn't like each other bit Like not the you and Patrick might like each Other but it's been like your one.

00:35:45: then Patrick one was too German right?

00:35:48: Oh, I wanted probably want to Australian.

00:35:49: So there's a bitter conflict.

00:35:50: It's a better tension because yeah, oh so I say can't be the world champion if i can't Be The best in my own country.

00:35:55: That Was sort Of how I think I need To be the Best in Australia in order to be the best.

00:36:00: And that being added, from the outside at least Norman and you didn't love each other either.

00:36:05: No no we did it!

00:36:06: We've known each others since juniors.

00:36:08: in junior racing.

00:36:12: He thought I was a bit outspoken so he trained with him when i was doing short course racing and training for the Ironman... ...and I used to have this opinion that you're only doing ironmen because your not good enough to make sure course whether thats sounds harsh but You only do an iron man because you can't cut it in the form of a one-leaf, right?

00:36:28: With with the fast guys.

00:36:29: In case she can't swim mate.

00:36:30: so he got to do this long stuff To make up for your deficits.

00:36:33: that's how I viewed him and then to his maybe probably rightfully so.

00:36:38: He thought i was an arrogant person And uh... So we had a bit of conflict.

00:36:42: Anyway..I got off the bike that year.

00:36:44: I felt magic when I went on the pursuit after Norman & I was feeding And I was eating at the time and, uh...and got really close.

00:36:53: I remember going up to hill where Taylor Nib fell apart this year so i felt her pain.

00:36:59: Well last year when Taylor nib had gone out of climate she ended up sitting down.

00:37:02: It's literally right there you sort of crest.

00:37:04: it is probably two miles from run.

00:37:07: You make a right turn-down.

00:37:08: You know that better than anyone else but you make your right turn down Pallani Hill.

00:37:12: Its a downhill, its literally a downhill.

00:37:13: to finish You can roll home still along way.

00:37:16: But history has shown Yeah, yeah.

00:37:19: History had shown that whoever wherever you were on Pilani Hill tended to be where you finished.

00:37:24: Whoever crested Pilani hill first won the race up until that point and Bob Babbitt used to throw all these stats out All at a time of the press conferences And you know bob babbitt was the godfather or anything?

00:37:34: That year he'd said it.

00:37:36: He talked about The iron wall and mark making them move before pilani hill and made this statement who ever turns?

00:37:43: I remember saying in the press conference You don't count your chickens before you hatch.

00:37:47: It doesn't always have to happen that way,

00:37:50: Bob.".

00:37:50: Like I said the race is over at finish line and I remember Norman saying something in a press conference.

00:37:57: so yeah.

00:37:57: So I remember going up this climb And i'm about to crest and it was eleven seconds behind Norman's dad like I could see him but he...I Was absolutely empty Almost read his mind because you know athletes are speaking to each other through their actions.

00:38:20: And it was basically like You heard what Bob Abbott said, mate.

00:38:23: I'm going down your going up and you're done?

00:38:26: And i literally fell apart fell apart at that moment.

00:38:29: no bonked i was done Empty.

00:38:32: everything had him to get in he rolled home and ends Up being a forty whatever seventy seconds behind me.

00:38:36: the end i fell Apart completely.

00:38:38: but That last two kilometers for Me Was the long lot felt longer than The marathon Right?

00:38:43: And I started going from a point where, and we were a fair way in front of third place.

00:38:47: It was Torbillon Cimbali—a big tall Danish guy who rode really well back then —and he it was six or seven minutes but i couldn't put one foot in front the other... ...and I was actually worried that Paul would have a newbie Fraser moment….

00:38:58: …and not finish like collapse right before the finish line!

00:39:02: So I remember fighting to get to that end.

00:39:06: I got to the finish line cross, finished a second.

00:39:08: My best ever performance you know.

00:39:09: Norman actually literally had to hold me up and I collapsed ended up in the medical tent.

00:39:13: And i've been telling my father for years that I wanted to win this race and this was the year... ...and it was the first time he entered into med ten.. ..I had two drop drops-two things of ivine You know?

00:39:22: It's absolutely gone!

00:39:23: And my father I saw the concern in my father's eyes when he looked at him.

00:39:26: He said son....you don't need this in your life

00:39:29: man!!

00:39:30: You have too beautiful

00:39:31: kids!!!

00:39:31: You don't NEED whatever you're chasing.

00:39:34: let it go, right?

00:39:35: Like I mean you don't need this and i remember going.

00:39:38: no dad.

00:39:39: No like one more year.

00:39:41: he's been saying this for the last four years!

00:39:42: You know what I mean?

00:39:44: One More Year but uh that to me was probably my best race in Kona because I followed a strategy that was new to me...I had the courage to do something different which ultimately shaped the way I raced that race Which is an evolution of myself as an athlete.

00:40:02: And even, you know we can talk about speed suit.

00:40:05: It was implied by the rules but I loved the battle of war with Norman that year like and full respect to him because it's a checkmate smile.

00:40:13: Gotcha!

00:40:14: And i would have played this same card if he were sitting in his seat or turned around.

00:40:19: got your mate?

00:40:19: That is what he did.

00:40:20: basically You're done...I win..and you know it....that was the statement he made to Kaye from home and it broke me.

00:40:28: It absolutely broke me.

00:40:28: So there's full respect in that sense to him and for respect myself fighting the fight, getting there... The race had definitely turned around.

00:40:37: I went on to win next year back at Race Strategy.

00:40:42: But that was when the whole fight with Norman started because Farris ended up finishing third that year.

00:40:46: so he caught Sinbali didn't know it.

00:40:49: Ferris finish third and then obviously those two guys bonded at the finish line for a mutual hate.

00:40:54: For The Australian, I was an easy target.

00:40:56: Faris were saying oh mate he sat in the grip didn't do anything.

00:40:59: i'm so glad you went on like how would you know ferris?

00:41:01: I dropped me on the bike.

00:41:02: there's this massive fights right?

00:41:04: And that became the big arguments again.

00:41:06: no social media!

00:41:08: So it was...I used to confront them.

00:41:10: remember in that year had all the guys from Under Armour just signed with Under Armours a few years earlier and they brought Kevin Plank over to watch his first Kona, and I ended up losing my mind because... ...I remember being on stage.

00:41:21: And I was so proud to get second.

00:41:23: Dad was there with me, you know?

00:41:24: My wife and kids.

00:41:27: And Shukwitka Beaky's hand, I remember shaking Faris' hand….

00:41:33: …and Norman didn't shake my hand!

00:41:35: Oh!

00:41:36: And I remember Norman came along.

00:41:38: they said something in German to Faris,….

00:41:40: ..and he patted me.

00:41:42: Right?

00:41:42: He tapped me, didn't shake my hand and then he went into his speech.

00:41:45: And I walked down.

00:41:46: it was the beginning of BlackBerry phones in a guy called Brian LaVell who used to date a female triathlete called Becky LaVelle.

00:41:54: As I came off the stage she handed me a blackberry... ...and there's an interview that Norman Stadler had just done for German Triathletes magazine on The Ground!

00:42:01: It basically hung me Basically like Basie said, oh mate.

00:42:05: We're so glad we beat McCormack.

00:42:07: He sat in the group and he did nothing.

00:42:08: mind you I've been off-the-front every other year and come it's a first year.

00:42:11: i decided to sit in The group All right And I went on the hunt.

00:42:15: I went onto rampage.

00:42:16: So when looking for him?

00:42:17: And I found him at that At one of the place called hula hula ozle.

00:42:20: do what's the place everyone goes to and uh

00:42:23: ha goes on the rocks.

00:42:24: Yeah, hug-hug goes.

00:42:25: And everyone was following me and I saw him and I went, Norman!

00:42:28: I want to talk to

00:42:28: you.".

00:42:29: It's like a party of the seas man.

00:42:31: Everyone knew that.

00:42:32: he said if you have anything just say it here... ...and they said okay mate what is with your call on the thing?

00:42:38: I've known since we were nineteen.

00:42:40: I kicked your ass most in life.

00:42:41: You can count one hand.

00:42:42: how many times are you

00:42:43: beating?!

00:42:44: Like let be honest, i'm not some upstart.

00:42:47: You beat my fair and square.

00:42:48: He says two you have none.

00:42:51: That's very easy.

00:42:52: And that was the and it was a big fight.

00:42:55: I remember just losing my mind.

00:42:57: The guys were pulling me away, and then i remembered panicking because I thought Under Armour is gonna.

00:43:02: I said I remember apologizing to Kevin Plank from Under Armours saying I'm so sorry I've lost my cool But he's like.

00:43:08: this is the coolest thing ever.

00:43:09: man Like you need to smash his guy next year!

00:43:13: I said im going kill him.

00:43:14: So thats what I said to Norman in front of everyone... ...and I found Ferris as well.

00:43:17: I said Im going to retire you from triathlon.

00:43:19: I said, every race you do next year whatever i see your name on an entry entry.

00:43:23: I'm flying to that race and gonna kick your ass.

00:43:25: You will never beat me again as long as you... And That was my motivation.

00:43:28: Never ever ever.

00:43:29: beat Me Again in either one Faris!

00:43:30: You'll NEVER EVER.

00:43:32: I'm going to retire you.

00:43:33: As I will say.

00:43:34: then they signed up for a race.

00:43:36: Faris did A Race In Dubai in February of two thousand seven and a friend Of My Jason Metters Was living in Dubai at the time said oh Faris coming out said what's The race?

00:43:44: it?

00:43:44: It was just a local Mickey Mouse race but got an aeroplane.

00:43:48: I flew over there and I proceeded to pump it.

00:43:52: When i waited with my watch at the finish line, I'd been in like two minutes going.

00:43:55: oh where are you?

00:43:56: And that was beginning of this massive Probably my most pressure race.

00:44:07: I went on to win that race.

00:44:08: But remember my wife saying you need to calm down like, I mean if you don't win this You're done okay?

00:44:14: He's said too much.

00:44:14: he've gone overboard this time and it was yeah got very very personal Yeah That.

00:44:19: but now look at said are used out as motivation or would feed myself feed myself Feed myself on that desire get up when the alarm goes off in the morning bang get up right here is you know that Was sort of my my motivation.

00:44:31: so yeah that fight That fight metaphor, the fighter metaphor you gave earlier is probably correct.

00:44:37: I needed that drive at that age to... You're naturally selfish and naturally committed your assist with what you are doing but you need it extra every day on purpose And he was my purpose.

00:44:50: There's

00:44:50: a book called the fighter's mind.

00:44:52: And when I was reading through some of the motivations for these people, this is exactly what i came to because that was kind-of... When I first testing international waters and funny enough being in Germany receiving kinda news like you were a golden child in germany!

00:45:09: People loved you, fans loved you and..I think it´s that exact thing where you just came out and stated what your gonna do but going through that effort of getting into everyone's mind and keeping the kind of confidence, do you look at this sport now how it has probably been sanitized in many ways?

00:45:30: You know athletes are media trained.

00:45:32: And always make sure yes go out to state your attention.

00:45:35: like for me.

00:45:35: I was went out took a bit from say okay Yes!

00:45:39: I am here dedicated my life because i want win races But also made sure never stir pot too much because I remember it could be someone like you who just makes their life's mission to get after.

00:45:55: Do you miss those days sometimes?

00:45:57: or do you miss that when you look at press conferences and these things?

00:46:00: I missed the... Look, i'm still a fan!

00:46:02: Like I think yeah not peeing in your bucket but I think you kept me involved in watching Iron Man cause you're exceptional at it.

00:46:10: And..and....I was like wow I had a trading partner Paul Ambrose, it was just a great journeyman training partner to have.

00:46:20: He's not going to win everything.

00:46:21: he won a couple of Ironmans but just always gonna turn up every day in.

00:46:25: and I remember as i was getting to move over here to Asia and I'm trying to get into sort of downsize his racing and maybe walk away from Kona And I said look um you're not gonna win Kona mate It's not gonna happen.

00:46:38: ,I love you mate like you wanna is..and he's...like I can't believe you.

00:46:40: don't believe me .

00:46:41: I said hey brother no one believes.

00:46:45: But there's a guy called Jan Frodeno who is coming, right?

00:46:48: And I'm telling you.

00:47:01: and planning a season, the strategic assault of that.

00:47:11: And where you're going to go in?

00:47:12: why?

00:47:12: Who are you gonna race and

00:47:14: why?".

00:47:14: There's the fun races.

00:47:15: there is the racers who are important for you... ...and just solving their problem because every race has its own problems!

00:47:22: The sunraces are super-super easy as you know but I always love German Races cause they have fast roads on the bike.

00:47:30: A lot of times they stick a wetsuit on it.

00:47:32: so i'm good with them.

00:47:34: You know, I could swim usually the really good swimmers in a wetsuit.

00:47:37: I can swim with them now as well which is normal but a lot of that other times.

00:47:40: Now they're The Good Swimmer swimming even quicker on the Wetsuit.

00:47:43: But uh and And i love the fast bikes and and the way the Germans attacked or bike riding compared to American races where it was very much back then relaxing bike ride and put together a big marathon, which was what worked for Mark Allen.

00:47:57: But you know the Jürgen Sachs at Thomas Helregels, the Norman Stadlers.

00:48:01: they were just aggressive bike riders!

00:48:03: And it's just seemed to be part of that whole German racing culture.

00:48:06: so I enjoyed that German racing...and i miss unpacking everyone like looking through the results seeing who is on you know, seeing a yarn for Dino so I would never race you.

00:48:16: but i mean and going okay this swim is gonna be red hot um who's gonna be around him?

00:48:21: You know like trying to unpack the before.

00:48:23: And then sort that out.

00:48:24: So I miss that more than anything.

00:48:26: people say they miss The racing.

00:48:28: I remember towards the end in my career those nerves and that it wasn't as pleasant anymore.

00:48:33: But I missed caring about something so much And being able physically able To execute at the highest level your little windows there and I miss that.

00:48:44: And actually caring about the outcome, they're actually being heartbroken at the end.

00:48:49: you know people don't understand... You put a smile on them, no cool but when do get back to house?

00:48:54: Your heart broken!

00:48:55: Yeah like....and i missed it..I didn't at the time But I miss caring something so much.

00:49:01: That's my main thing from retirement more than anything.

00:49:04: talking about retirement, I feel like you have transitioned to do things in the sport and every now and then i shoot your message when i see you on some other grand stage.

00:49:13: And i'm like how on earth did he know end up getting into this league?

00:49:17: And playing here and there?

00:49:19: are you able to take...i'm assuming a slightly toned down version.

00:49:25: but something of that aggression, something of proving people wrong into the boardrooms that you now enter?

00:49:32: I think, y'know.

00:49:33: The irony of it all is athletes are such alphas but there's such betas in that whole space because when you get entered to corporate world they're animals!

00:49:44: Like...I mean..it is dog-eat-dog

00:49:46: right?!

00:49:47: So actually not that i fit a lot easier But always shocked at just how ruthless people can be and so I got asked that a lot as I transitioned.

00:50:00: Look, some of the most respect they have for many my peers... ...I don't need to be their best friend or talk them but when you've had these unspoken battles with people on a race field- I'm sure you've heard it with Patrick and Alistair and Harvey and so many athletes You don't even say anything!

00:50:18: But you respect how tough of character they are because to break someone like her is SO difficult And you throw everything at him and sometimes they have like, geez.

00:50:26: You're a tough man!

00:50:28: Like he were a tough individual... ...and I found that it wasn't something i had to manufacture.. ..I think naturally as you said earlier.... ....I always thought I could outwork people or I didn't think was the most talented but I always felt that I can get up every morning.

00:50:42: The only thing I could stay true to myself is Get Up When That Alarm Goes Off and do this session in front of me and Do That Extra.

00:50:47: I Could Outwork People.

00:50:48: Thats How I Felt.

00:50:51: My mantra, I guess within my thing.

00:50:52: We'll just work harder than all of them.

00:50:53: whether that was scientifically great It was what worked for my brain.

00:50:57: and i found when like When i moved into the workforce a lot Of my peers said i expected so much i was going to do things with him And we got in the workforce?

00:51:03: I felt they retreated and They became the opposite To what made them great in.

00:51:08: They were no longer risk takers In sport.

00:51:10: they would Like take a chance and go For it.

00:51:12: nature took risks and oh That's so brave.

00:51:15: but they suddenly become.

00:51:18: They fenced off everything they had, and then sort of said no I don't want to do that.

00:51:21: And be like oh okay.

00:51:22: so when i started things everyone would laugh all the time!

00:51:25: Then we go now im going to this.

00:51:27: why man?

00:51:28: Why

00:51:29: not?!

00:51:29: What's the worst thing it can do?

00:51:30: if you spend our whole life in a win or lose environment?

00:51:33: well ok doesn't work.

00:51:35: So what?

00:51:35: It felt like... If sport taught me anything its such a cliche hear people say but do actually apply real-life because there is absolute consequences responsibilities that you don't have when you're younger as an athlete.

00:51:49: You've had a family and that, but I just carry the same mindset into the corporate world like okay let's risk.

00:51:54: what's the worst thing it can happen?

00:51:55: It fails.

00:51:55: then i'll move on to the next thing.

00:51:56: people are always in this world.

00:51:58: oh well that didn't work!

00:51:59: What an idiot!

00:52:00: Then I'm never cared about that anyway.

00:52:02: so...I find the business world or the corporate wall-the real world is relatively tame.

00:52:10: um uh yeah..you definitely need not in half as the wrong word, but be clear and concise on what you want.

00:52:18: What are trying to get?

00:52:19: And I think playing that space... You feel it comes back at your same way because there's so much more cerebral as opposed to physical world we came from in sport.

00:52:30: they're monsters in the cerebral space!

00:52:33: They have ruthless in different ways and i always try put myself around.

00:52:37: good people you can come up with the dumbest idea and I'm like, let's talk it through.

00:52:44: Yeah!

00:52:44: Let's do

00:52:44: it.".

00:52:45: You know?

00:52:45: That's me.

00:52:46: What's the worst thing that going to happen right?

00:52:47: Like if... If It makes sense.

00:52:49: And thats sort of how i approach life.

00:52:52: .And..I think when you have that abundant or curious mindset ,and still have a discipline that you've learnt for your sport all the people employing now HAVE TO DO SPORT.

00:53:03: but I think its an important backbone that you have to be active understand discipline Because nothing's for free.

00:53:11: My father used to say, life isn't fair if you expect it be fair and you're going to be bitterly disappointed.

00:53:16: so don't expect it to be fair.

00:53:17: So I've enjoyed that transition And i've been lucky enough in some of the things to do is able To sit on the sidelines or watch your career Or watch Alistair's career.

00:53:27: Watch other people's careers within a sport That I love.

00:53:31: Be a fanboy without any... Get experience all the upside Without either nerves just being a fan.

00:53:36: Just sit back and love It and build businesses off the back of that.

00:53:41: So it's been a great ride, I've enjoyed

00:53:43: it.".

00:53:43: Yeah!

00:53:44: It is really fascinating how some people are able to let that go or not you know?

00:53:51: To genuinely be able sit there and like yeah these guys because he said this a few times so-and-so coming.

00:53:58: The same way when i look at oh yep the Norwegians they're coming I better tick my boxes and pack my bags.

00:54:05: And every athlete in his era kind is honest enough to find that point.

00:54:11: For you, for growing up coming your dad was a warfie as I call it in Australia.

00:54:20: he was blue collar honest kind of guy who killed your dream trying to be professional surfer.

00:54:27: right now You have kids Have Your Own Kids.

00:54:33: that friction, that chip you managed to work through.

00:54:36: That chip on your shoulder that you got... You said two brothers always had to kind of balance their situation.

00:54:42: Where do find for the kids now trying to protect them?

00:54:46: I found it super hard transitioning this to my own kid's.

00:54:52: You know they need but try and protect.

00:54:54: where does is fall for you?

00:54:59: My kids are a lot older than me.

00:55:00: My oldest was twenty three years old Flynn, my youngest is fifteen.

00:55:05: And I would say was a way softer father than that.

00:55:09: My father and my father tell stories about my daddy.

00:55:11: he was absolutely loving Father but it was black or white.

00:55:15: you know like I mean at this end there were two things.

00:55:18: He didn't have an education.

00:55:19: You're getting one Like.

00:55:21: That Was His Purpose In Life.

00:55:22: i got three boys.

00:55:24: they are not going to work on the wharves like me because you get in Education Because he Didn't Know Education Doesn'T Equal Success But in his head The smart guys do better than him.

00:55:33: So you're going to school, right?

00:55:34: And any discussion outside of that... ...you are not having in this house, there's the door!

00:55:42: You want to go and do it on your

00:55:42: own?!

00:55:43: That was basically what I got constantly.

00:55:45: My kids were like complete opposites.

00:55:46: Like oh you can be anything you wanna be but put your mind to it.

00:55:50: But uh..I think my oldest or lucky enough have their grandfather-in-life.

00:55:55: he passed about four years ago now.

00:55:57: so They're aware of dad and how he went about things.

00:56:01: My son, not so much And I'm a lot softer.

00:56:07: Sometimes i question whether it's the right approach at times but It's definitely different world and I know I'm not blind to that.

00:56:13: But yeah is definitely.

00:56:15: um my father was tough love like you know Like.

00:56:19: remember.

00:56:20: Well done, son.

00:56:20: There was never a lot... Towards the end of my career I was able to hug my dad and pat on his back.

00:56:25: Good on you, son!

00:56:26: Well done!

00:56:28: My dad?

00:56:28: He could give me more than that!

00:56:30: Hugging him is stuff!

00:56:33: Definitely he was an older father.

00:56:34: so my father had me at forty-two years old.

00:56:37: So it was uh.. You know i do recall you know, driving to athletics as a kid and my father's listening to Sinatra.

00:56:43: And I get in with friends' dad's cars and they're listenin' to Zeppelin'.

00:56:46: I'm thinkin', My Dad is weird man!

00:56:48: Like he listens to opera and Sinatra... ...and it was just different age bracket of the father.

00:56:54: but i really feel blessed that had an older Father.. ..and a father who focused on his boys or had vision for these boys in this sense To get us out where we were because We weren't poor by any means.

00:57:06: But yeah we are very modest upbringing and public schools, if you got into trouble outside of school with the law or anything.

00:57:17: You knew your going to cop it harder at home.

00:57:20: so he ran those three boys very well.

00:57:23: So yeah was good.

00:57:25: Yeah exactly like in that situation I do sometimes Like i question myself all the time on this And thats why im wondering what is your honest reaction when you see your kids When they don't need to fight their way through?

00:57:38: You know, it's kind of the same way that you I'm assuming worked hard for your kids to have.

00:57:45: The better upbringing?

00:57:48: But when you see one of your kids is just not... They're latching on but they are not latching properly.

00:57:56: where does your mind go?

00:57:57: My son at the moment is that it's funny because he goes to this school in Sydney called Scott's College.

00:58:02: Fantastic School, beautiful school.

00:58:04: but I remember when i was a school they used to pull the ties of all the guys from scott's college cause they were The Private School.

00:58:10: you know we'd be on the train together.

00:58:12: and now They're the private school kids.

00:58:14: And yeah they played rugby.

00:58:16: We played Rugby League You Know?

00:58:17: They...we surfed..they did But y'know there would just It Was definitely uh them and us.

00:58:24: Now I look At my Kids and go well your On That.

00:58:26: So I understand the guys that are giving you a hard time.

00:58:30: I understand where they're coming from but it's um yeah, i do It's...I think every father because I was lucky enough in the last You know probably six months of my father's life having these longer conversations and asking me with my dad A lot of questions I wanted to ask.

00:58:46: you know like That I never knew he was passing.

00:58:48: And uh He actually said to me a father will never feel like he gave enough.

00:58:53: I remember saying to my dad, Dad you couldn't have given any more here the best dad ever!

00:58:58: You know?

00:58:58: Like i could not ask for anything but it was interesting hearing him say that because always felt in his head must be happy and ticked boxes.

00:59:06: all of these boys so what we are going through is just a normal thing.

00:59:12: I hope am doing alright by myself.

00:59:15: You

00:59:16: said as an athlete too We never feel like were giving up.

00:59:20: Yeah, somehow you go through all these things and it never feels quite enough.

00:59:25: I'm going mental mate!

00:59:28: Makka honestly i've truly enjoyed the stories diving back into your mind in a little bit of what we're talking about right now.

00:59:37: I do have to ask this closing question when was that last time?

00:59:41: You weren't mentally?

00:59:41: well went mental like.

00:59:43: so going mental isn't what going mental means going mental as in, going off with my kids or going mental.

00:59:50: Because

00:59:52: if you ask like this maybe I got a lot of your kid but um the last time i went uh going mental...I guess the last one that would probably be at the kids over something might and it will have been something home where kids are always like dad!

01:00:07: You go from zero to hundred an instant.

01:00:10: well don't do the things you're doing no..but Big racer.

01:00:17: I think I was going meant that I was definitely a composed being and Definitely in there In the success box, you know when?

01:00:27: your not mental state at that.

01:00:28: after what he called it the zone?

01:00:30: I guess And we're always searching wondering how to get their was.

01:00:34: Was that long course worlds are one in in twenty-twelve?

01:00:38: i just felt I was in that zone and I never felt again.

01:00:41: So I did a few races off of retired about six or seven races After That but I Never Felt that again.

01:00:47: You know, like it was just everything fire is strong and you're in the hands but your constantly pushing to answer every question That comes up.

01:00:53: do I feel good?

01:00:54: Yes i Do push them what you know those that are just glorious days.

01:00:57: So yeah Like oh no i guess that my head Is going mental could be getting ahead In The right space To fight Those those voices that creep up and determine the outcome of any event for you.

01:01:06: Chris, Mac and McCormick I've learned a lot.

01:01:09: The fighting mind who loves to solve puzzles honestly.

01:01:12: thank you very much.

01:01:13: given all the inspiration i was probably never able To quite admit it.

01:01:16: as an athlete It always takes A little bit hindsight but But You were definitely a lighting force.

01:01:22: so thanks Very much For everything he's done And continue to do for the sport.

01:01:26: actually We didn't even get to talk about the charity But yeah, we certainly weren't mental.

01:01:35: Pleasure

01:01:35: talking to you!

01:01:36: You entertained me for many years my friends.

01:01:39: Absolute pleasure.