Pressure, Panic Attacks and One of Cycling's Greatest Comebacks - Demi Vollering

00:00:01: I really like had a kind of panic attack and never experienced that before, on the bike.

00:00:08: If it doesn't work out then people are going to disappoint me.

00:00:12: And suddenly i made this such big thing in my head That I really freaked out Like...I couldn't breathe My heart rate was going crazy high.

00:00:23: Then I said..i'm not okay.

00:00:26: And then she just said to me, like it's okay Damien you're not a robot.

00:00:31: That took off so much pressure for me.

00:00:34: I decided to do an attack myself and by doing this attack myself i took back the control.

00:00:40: So after that I felt in control again... ...I was the one who put others into pain.. ..I tried to remember my self on this stage because.... ....I managed to survive that!

00:00:52: Whatever is going to happen , I will survive it again.

00:01:09: Demi Vollering, one of the world's greatest cyclists we have ever seen.

00:01:16: She has just completed The Triple having won all three grand tours and she is taking the time to sit with me on a Friday morning literally a few days after her amazing last-minute victory!

00:01:32: Demi welcome to Vollering.

00:01:33: Going Mental.

00:01:34: how are you?

00:01:35: Thank You I'm good thank you

00:01:38: I can imagine, so we were talking briefly before the show.

00:01:42: What do you do after having completed such an amazing feat few days afterwards on a Friday morning at ten o'clock?

00:01:50: At that moment i'm home and have some rest.

00:01:53: So yeah...I am really enjoying And like I said already it's good because now is raining.

00:02:00: otherwise im too tense to do much.

00:02:02: I always really love to go outdoors, so if it's good weather then yeah my rest is also not really rest because i just want to go for a nice hike or still go for swim.

00:02:14: Or whatever like...I'm just all the time outside and now still am outside!

00:02:18: I mean I still do the walks with the dog in the rain but uh..i'm a bit more inside than when there will be really good weather.

00:02:25: It's not a five hour walk around the block.

00:02:30: It's amazing.

00:02:31: We have to get into the gyro straight away, I think it is just such an amazing feat and maybe if you'll allow me too we can start on Saturday evening.

00:02:46: Saturday evening almost a week ago this was stage before the final You've won on The Col de Finestre And its one of most epic climbs in the stage.

00:03:00: And not knowing you, seeing the photo afterwards... I mean it didn't look like a celebration of joy.

00:03:06: Let's put it this way!

00:03:07: It wasn't one of those big feats.

00:03:11: Forty-nine seconds down and on stage left.

00:03:14: what goes through your mind that night?

00:03:16: Well actually just when i finished The Stage from the Finestre This stage was shortened.

00:03:23: so also..it was a weird stage, it was a rare final.

00:03:29: But when I finished, of course my first thoughts were like shit.

00:03:33: I wish they had more time gained back on Anna.

00:03:36: so Of course i was somewhere happy that I won this stage but... ...I prefer to be in yellow or a pink in the evening.

00:03:46: So yeah it's strange because really its super double feelings and also Actually, my first reaction is to like... My coach for example was also as shit.

00:04:00: I'm sorry.

00:04:01: You know?

00:04:01: Like..I really wanted do more but it wasn't possible.

00:04:07: So yeah then Also i had a chat with my coach and said actually I am really disappointed that didn't work out.

00:04:14: And she's just saying you can be disappointed tonight But after After a few hours, after you arrive at the hotel with the bus then we will change your minds to what's coming tomorrow because we're not gonna give up.

00:04:27: And of course I also didn't give it up... ...because I cannot but when i was driving back in the bus already.. ..I checked fellow viewers for stage for last day Because before going to Giro I always check all stages I checked, you know like with one eye just because it was not so special stage.

00:04:51: and yeah for sure normally Not much would happen in a stage like that.

00:04:57: But now i wasn't the best back home And i looked at this stage.

00:05:00: And i'm like actually we can still We can still Try something?

00:05:06: Then also my teammates have been joking Like It will be funny if everybody makes their plan You know how to Still Be able To win This race.

00:05:15: So I saw directly that my whole team around me everybody was directly like a focus on what's coming already the day after.

00:05:23: so yeah, i really love this spirit.

00:05:27: and as soon we came at the hotel uh... I saw Lars & Lies a lot at dinner table.

00:05:33: And they were like okay girls make yourself ready because tomorrow is going to be one long big fight!

00:05:40: Actually from this moment We had so much fun on the dinner table We really enjoyed our time and we were joking about what was going to happen the day after, you know?

00:05:48: Like that... ...we're all going to die.

00:05:51: And yeah!

00:05:53: It's just a good fun.

00:05:54: like the spirits are very good because in this moment it felt as if there is nothing left to lose anymore.

00:06:03: So basically you turn your disappointment into hope over a bus ride.

00:06:08: I mean

00:06:09: That's pretty.

00:06:12: What do you think it is Allows you to do this, right?

00:06:14: Because I mean in a grand tour stage Sorry.

00:06:18: In a grantor and general You know things go your way or Or against you but it really isn't that you continue building a positive momentum all the time.

00:06:29: you kind of have To react every single day And for somebody like myself who was only ever racing one day Of course we had to fight on The last Day.

00:06:40: So explain to me how you get, from that moment of disappointment... ...to finding the hope.

00:06:45: Like what was it thing made a difference?

00:06:48: That got you having fun!

00:06:49: I think also sometimes by myself It seems like The more hard things gets.. ..the more fun i find them.

00:07:02: You know?

00:07:10: Still I have something to prove here still.

00:07:12: I want to make it happen, you know like if something seems impossible then Something inside me start boiling and is like But what if?

00:07:23: It works out?

00:07:24: What if its can happen?

00:07:27: so i don't know.

00:07:28: i think this kind of feeling really started to come up after After the Saturday.

00:07:36: So Also that morning, the sunday morning I had just such a weird calmness over me.

00:07:44: It really didn't feel like i was going to lose to Jiro you know?

00:07:47: Like...I was more focused on.

00:07:50: but what if.. ..i can make it happen!

00:07:52: That would be crazy stirring and i'd so proud of myself for making this happen.

00:07:58: So i was more focussed on still whats possible instead of not being able.

00:08:07: Yeah, I don't know.

00:08:08: I have had it in the past as well like... ...I've lost Grand Tours on shit ways because I won Lost of Huerta Because i stopped for a P-stop and then I nearly got back Like.. I think It was like eight or seven seconds on the last day where I still lost it, but also Tour de France were of course my crash.

00:08:34: Where i almost managed to win back with a broken bag like... I don't know.

00:08:39: always these difficult moments?

00:08:42: I really seem to enjoy and also It stays close to you because its the moment when Where you really have to fight for it, and we're actually almost everything looks like is not going your way if You still can make it happen.

00:08:56: It feels even more Like incredible And Satisfying.

00:09:02: the adversity forever sounds like you are able to turn The high stress moments into like a curiosity of like what if?

00:09:10: What an actually go right here which I find Which I find fascinating because i think something learned probably over the years.

00:09:21: And it brings me to a quote that you said afterwards, and maybe reportedly even during the race... You said today was all about daring to lose.

00:09:34: Explain that to me.

00:09:34: I find fascinating because where i come from we're taught the opposite protect the podium be safe try play your guard.

00:09:43: but this blew me away.

00:09:45: No, yeah it was really like that because we had in the stage early a long hard climb and steep climbs.

00:09:56: so our goal is to go over this climb as hard as possible with selective groups Alone, she had no teammates anymore.

00:10:12: And then from there on I needed to be able to lose it all.

00:10:18: so like an Antonia Niedermeyer who was third in the GC podium... ...I needed to let her go and make Anna work!

00:10:27: When Anna would work i can drop Anna somewhere else but of course if my legs weren't that great or Anna decided not to work, then also she would lose it all.

00:10:43: But I would also loose it because we had some riders in the front at one point.

00:10:49: so yeah...I really needed to stay calm and need a trust that i will be able to bridge to the riders on the front Because if was not able than also losed my GC sport for sure.

00:11:06: By being able to lose this, I created an opportunity to win it all.

00:11:11: And that's what I kept the whole day in my mind and also what we said evening before already.

00:11:19: Larsi came to me and he said like... Demir are you ready give up your second place at GC?

00:11:27: To have a little chance of winning it!

00:11:30: Then i said directly yes of course because in the end I've had already so many beautiful podium spots, but in the end it's only to win what really counts for me.

00:11:42: So... ...I wanted take that risk and be able to win it!

00:11:51: It takes some guts of course, but yeah I'm really happy that this went like that.

00:11:55: Well

00:11:56: if ever any listeners needed a nudge to get into women cycling just for comparison in men's cycling the last stage of a grand tour is generally celebrated you know with front-line pictures and everybody gets a glass champagne.

00:12:12: You have a habit, actually.

00:12:13: We'll get into that little bit later of creating fireworks on the last day of our grant work and I think it's really interesting dynamic also within The Race you know?

00:12:29: And your quoted saying... a teammate, but also your former coach right?

00:12:43: Yeah

00:12:44: my former trainer yeah.

00:12:46: And I mean she knows you better than most at least your physiology and where you come from.

00:12:53: so like a move like that i mean that's either the ultimate poker bluff or supreme confidence which one would you say.

00:13:02: it was of course a little bit of both and in the beginning also she didn't really start to write because I don't believe Damien, but then at one point she started to write.

00:13:15: So that I think also she understood like oh shit!

00:13:19: She's deadly serious.

00:13:21: But no yeah it sometimes... It is very interesting because we know each other so well.

00:13:28: Also I know Anna of course very well and how she used to train me.

00:13:36: Yeah, it's very interesting.

00:13:37: And also I learned so much from her and yeah she was the one who coached me some years behind in the car.

00:13:46: So It really strange to be again like battling each other but... ...it makes even more interesting because Also She makes Coming best out of me Because i need to keep improving To beat her Um..because otherwise yeah Its not possible cause she knows me so well.

00:14:05: Okay, so then your plan sort of comes off.

00:14:09: You get up the front and you're closing the gap to The Leading Group who at that stage had actually the virtual lead overall lead with Antonia Nino Maier?

00:14:20: And then he said twenty K out... ...you started a cramp!

00:14:24: You start a cramper-up.. ..and weren't sure if were gonna make it.

00:14:26: I think this is something That's kind like a worst nightmare

00:14:31: right?!

00:14:31: You have this perfect plan.

00:14:32: everything goes off every comes together.

00:14:35: What do you do in those twenty Ks?

00:14:37: When things go sideways.

00:14:40: Nothing, just keep pedaling!

00:14:42: But how do you keep

00:14:43: peddling?!

00:14:45: You can't drop a hundred watts and then be like okay I could easily find my way back... You have to keep the man fresher.

00:14:49: Yeah no of course.

00:14:52: luckily it settled a bit.

00:14:55: It was when i arrived at the back of the group And for first time took some pressure off legs.

00:15:02: Oh no, I have the feeling i'm gonna cramp.

00:15:05: But then luckily it didn't come all the way through so I always could keep pushing.

00:15:10: but of course It wasn't nice that they didn't feel close to nice.

00:15:17: yeah on That moment was really like wow if If I start to cramp here Then there's going be a problem because in twenty k still quite long Luckily I've been able Pushing through it and keep the others motivated as well.

00:15:35: I never showed anything about of it.

00:15:37: So, i think this is also you know like This is also supports You poker all the way through it because at one point if they start to See that you're really fucked in cramping then for sure They gonna take their profit from it.

00:15:54: It's amazing right how?

00:15:55: It helps so much seeing someone else suffer.

00:15:59: I always think like the fashion of big sunglasses only came about so you can really hide your eyes because somebody who knows, especially if that rival is one of your close people for over many years.

00:16:12: They could just see right through your bluff and they say yeah

00:16:14: okay whatever Yeah this was also what i know.

00:16:19: what they say, for example to Anna via the communication.

00:16:24: If you're on a climb and these see me like this with my mouth open I always make this face.

00:16:31: then for sure that go in the radio come on Anna, Demi she's about to crack so don't give up but...I know how it goes because they know me well also.

00:16:46: No, like when I'm really about do Like this you know but then also sometimes.

00:16:52: I'm like But if I make a face like this stuff for sure that think i'm already on my limits like Sometimes I also try to think the opposite like To play a little bit with them.

00:17:04: So yeah You can also Play at the other way around.

00:17:07: there

00:17:07: you go endurance sports and many tricks.

00:17:10: Um Demi?

00:17:12: I would love to go and explore A few or more of the stages that actually got you to be this athlete.

00:17:18: That got you, To Be The Woman That Can Overcome... ...the Deficit That Allows You Go There.

00:17:26: And as I said in the beginning This Show Is Called Going Mental.

00:17:31: When You Hear Going Mental Let's Say Demi-Going Mental.

00:17:37: What Does That Ring In Your Mind?

00:17:38: Are You Familiar With The Term?

00:17:40: Yes Sure It'a a term i think i really like Because, you know like sports it's actually in my eyes.

00:17:51: It's almost ninety percent mental because that's also what I really believe.

00:17:57: Like in sports.

00:17:58: we train our body so-so hard and often We forget the mind but actually its the minds who push You over the limits?

00:18:05: Its The Minds.

00:18:05: Who?

00:18:07: Who?

00:18:09: Get those fixed victories.

00:18:10: Actually You know your bodies.

00:18:16: they also have limits, but it's actually the mind who put the limit on their show.

00:18:21: Yeah if you manage to work and train your minds into like make these limits bigger or Really Know how to trick your own mind.

00:18:33: I think this is the key in sports But also in general life because If you let your mind Going the freeway then sometimes also it knows perfectly how to trick.

00:18:46: you, of course.

00:18:49: The mental side.

00:18:50: I'm really fascinated always by the mental side yes.

00:18:54: so looking from the outside if you say or feels like its ninety percent mental what is it?

00:19:02: Because If You and i go for a ride right now and you start to pick up the pace, then I can tell myself as long as I want that i'm a hard dude.

00:19:12: And if I could do all these things... ...I am not going hold onto your wheel!

00:19:15: Like there is no way right?

00:19:17: Even though I've got all of my mental tricks for decades where do you think that mental preparation meets reality?

00:19:29: That's good question but also really believe in yourself a big gap because if you would give up by the first thought of I'm not able to do this, it will be way earlier as that.

00:19:43: You managed to stretch stretch this?

00:19:47: Because on the moment that you actually think like really thing okay now It's done.

00:19:53: but then If you imagine a bear is coming after you still can push Like if its better live view we still could do little bit more.

00:20:01: so It's really hard to put a border on there.

00:20:09: I think it also depends day by day, because if you're super fresh and very motivated... ...and feeling good then this stretch is always easier too but when you are super tired or under a lot of stress the stretch will be less big.

00:20:31: So for me, it's hard to say where this

00:20:36: line is.

00:20:36: I would probably even agree and says like a daily negotiation right in terms of what going on?

00:20:43: Where your capacity isn't when you go.

00:20:45: but coming back to the moments that made you champion... ...I was sitting at this very studio with Kasia Niviadoma-Fini few weeks ago And she was talking to me about the twenty-twenty four Tour de France and The Last Climb Up Abdulaz, where you again lit the race on fire in very last... On a very last stage.

00:21:12: Very last day!

00:21:13: She was telling how had this out of body experience You know?

00:21:16: She just went into her element found every little ounce she could To save for seconds.

00:21:27: You're sitting on the other side of those four seconds.

00:21:29: Yeah,

00:21:30: what was going through your mind and How did that shape you

00:21:35: this day?

00:21:36: it's one of my My most painful days on the bike because yeah We only found out after the tour but in that moment I had a broken back.

00:21:45: so i Was suffering like from A lot a lot Of pain And That whole last climb door up to us i was just i wasn't so much pain.

00:21:55: So For my feeling, I was standing still.

00:21:58: But really...I don't know but.. ..I continued to give myself more and more pain you know?

00:22:06: Like it's just like i need keep going.

00:22:10: so every time when almost not able to push anymore for my feelings no then stood up again trying to push show.

00:22:19: this is one of the hardest days And as far by didn't find a flow at all.

00:22:29: I know what she's saying because i recognize this feeling also, like sometimes you find this flow on a long climb and there is no limit or stopping.

00:22:39: but for me it was far different that day.

00:22:45: every meter was torture!

00:22:49: It really wasn't nice climbing.

00:22:51: You mentioned it, you broke your coccyx in a crash earlier.

00:22:57: In the Tour de France Femme that year.

00:22:59: and I mean...you keep going right?

00:23:02: You look at everyday sports..I mean of course its classic cliche example.

00:23:08: but you look at soccer And someone gets tackled is rolling around doing this.

00:23:16: How like how do you keep going with a broken back.

00:23:22: I didn't die from it, so... In the end i never knew that my back was broken only after when we went to hospital.

00:23:56: To make pictures because after tour were really like.

00:23:59: now It's not right something doesn't feel right and during the tour We didn't take time to go make these pictures actually.

00:24:06: So yeah..it was only afterwards then a new one.

00:24:09: And think this is good thing Because otherwise for sure You know the risks.

00:24:16: and also then I think maybe I wouldn't have continued because there was a risk that you make it worse or so.

00:24:24: But damn honestly, sorry to interrupt.

00:24:26: Yeah but like your back is broken you Have a broken bone in your body which is like between Your core and your legs where all the strength passes through right?

00:24:35: So you're moving Like You Know.

00:24:39: you know your body well enough to know that there's something seriously wrong.

00:24:45: No, I knew something wasn't right but to be honest It was my like okay.

00:24:53: My second broken bone ever.

00:24:55: But also for first broken bone i never realized it Was the kneecap that I broke in best when I was younger become more of a cyclist.

00:25:17: So I think also, probably my pain was like can have it's probably pretty high so...I don't know.

00:25:27: i always managed to push myself through these kind of pain and yeah um.. Also I didn't how able to continue with this but It just something that did.

00:25:41: it wasn't possible to give up in this moment.

00:25:45: Also, this is cycling like you cannot stop the race and think next day I continue again because if you don't make a finish line at that point then the next time will not start anymore.

00:25:58: it's just rules.

00:26:00: so i think in cycling we learn very early no matter what you'll be finished after the finish line And then the next day you wake up and try to start, make a finish again.

00:26:17: It's going like that in a straight rate.

00:26:19: it is all about picking yourself up making it into the finished line... ...and continue on as soon as its really over.

00:26:30: Then you think this pain actually too bad.

00:26:36: So maybe I should check.

00:26:39: And during, I think there's just no place to-to think about it and you'd just continue.

00:26:46: Is that like a mental armor?

00:26:47: That... You're afraid if you open the door once To say okay i'm in pain something is wrong here If I give up once.. ..that option all of sudden exists In my head!

00:26:59: I never thought about this actually.

00:27:04: But its also like The hard facts.

00:27:08: You will not be able to take the start line again if you didn't finish the race.

00:27:17: It's something strange almost in cycling, like also sometimes you see riders who crash and can really tell they're not on this road anymore.

00:27:29: They have big, big concussion for example... ...they've no idea where there are but still on a bike trying to manage to come into the finish line.

00:27:37: How did we came on this point that we let human beings fight to make it a finish line?

00:27:45: Well, their brain is so fucked at the moment.

00:27:48: That they don't even know where there are and screaming like... It's really cycling about these kind of things.

00:28:00: I'm sometimes really weird sports.

00:28:04: So that moment When you get to the top of Abdulaz, as an athlete do you think that's what built into the fighter?

00:28:18: I mean are your same person between y'know twenty-twenty four and twenty twenty six.

00:28:22: where come in at moment.

00:28:25: The one is reacting defending i would almost say And the other one is acting attacking because another quote I got from that race is you went to your teammate and said, ''I am not

00:28:39: okay.''.

00:28:42: Considering how we just talked about how tough the sport was.

00:28:45: You have to keep going!

00:28:47: Keep pushing... It's quite hard for someone who speaks these words.

00:28:55: That's for sure like ... And also in terms of if it changed me?

00:29:02: Yes because Now, when you go into a hard battle.

00:29:06: You also remember yourself sometimes like I have been in worse places or I've been in the worst moments and i also did overcome it at that time.

00:29:15: so now I can also do it.

00:29:17: um no but yeah The day before last stage uh this year...I really liked how to kind of panic attack, and I never experienced that before like on the bike especially because normally i'm that kind of person.

00:29:36: whatever is going around in-in the world.

00:29:38: Like as soon as I go on a bike and I'm in competition...I can forget everything!

00:29:44: And I am really into competition..and I fight for win or

00:29:50: um.

00:29:51: so I think at this stage When I found myself in this panic attack, it was also kind of a shock because never ever before... ...I experienced not being raised and to be so distracted.

00:30:10: And feeling certainly so much fear from the outside.

00:30:13: actually Because suddenly i realized like what if?

00:30:17: if it doesn't work out and people are gonna be disappointed to me.

00:30:23: And suddenly I made this such a big thing in my head that really, I freaked out like...I couldn't breathe!

00:30:32: My heart rate was going crazy high and i was hyperventilating.

00:30:38: so Not okay, and then I went to my teammate.

00:30:43: And actually she asked me if i needed the bottle or like just because you was going too go-to-the-car in an asset like no.

00:30:53: and then i said Like... I'm not ok like something is wrong You know?

00:30:58: Like.

00:30:59: and then She just said to me like it's OK.

00:31:01: They mean your not a robot.

00:31:03: and that took off so much pressure for me that I managed to come a little bit back and just try after, stay at my teammate's wheel.

00:31:14: And follow her through the bunch because... ...I really felt lost in the bunch like.. ..I found myself between all these riders around but on the same time i had no idea you know?

00:31:27: Like.

00:31:27: I didn't feel as if was this moment in the bench.

00:31:31: everything is flying by.

00:31:35: I couldn't focus on positioning or where i am.

00:31:39: Where it was in the moment, you know?

00:31:41: Like what kilometer like... It's just really strange!

00:31:46: I was about to lose myself.

00:31:48: Really I was freaking out.

00:31:49: so after when I told her that I'm not okay and she taught me this..I tried to stay in a real one With her, I managed to come to the front.

00:32:00: And almost after it directly we started doing a finish climb and then slowly... ...I came back in my focus….

00:32:09: …and I remembered that also I was in way more pain than I should be normally on a climb you know like.. ..I couldn't suffer at this point.

00:32:20: so.... Then one point of this climb I decided to do an attack myself And by doing this attack myself, I took back the control.

00:32:30: So after that... ...I felt in control again and was one who put others into pain.

00:32:36: so then i completely made a switch and still managed to win from the group.

00:32:46: but there were two riders out.

00:32:49: so second or third on stage.

00:32:54: Yeah, still if I sometimes think back about how everything went in this stage you know like mentally It's crazy.

00:33:02: I can write a book about it because its You went through so many different phases.

00:33:09: So yeah, it's really interesting.

00:33:11: and still with if sometimes I have like at that moment or In pain on the bike in a race then i try to remember myself back on this stage Because That I was able to continue there With everything that was going Mentally around but also with the broken back and you know like, I managed to survive death.

00:33:35: So whatever it's is going to happen.

00:33:38: I will survive again.

00:33:39: It's

00:33:39: crazy because Eileen go this gear she gave a press conference And she said something along lines of evidence over affirmation?

00:33:53: Pretty much anything but the sounds of it.

00:33:55: Honestly, I haven't found something you can overcome.

00:33:56: yet over telling yourself now everything is fine.

00:34:01: i think It's always a mixture Of The two But it's kind of i think Something You're building together um?

00:34:09: You said the anxiety was Coming through outside expectation.

00:34:14: Is that?

00:34:15: is That right?

00:34:16: Kind of what?

00:34:16: yeah What other people laid on you?

00:34:19: Did you ever talk to a coach or find like, a direct kind of solution for you.

00:34:28: For yourself?

00:34:29: To deal with it if it comes up again?

00:34:30: because I mean the more you win... The more people expect you to win.

00:34:34: so that outside expectation is..for you i mean It's a given wherever you raise People won't expect You-to-win.

00:34:40: No yeah!

00:34:41: I work together With sport psychologist.

00:34:45: but To be honest, the pressure was also before our tour there from outside world of course.

00:34:55: But now it's kind of hit me and that this blocked my work from what I've been doing.

00:35:08: And after it never really happened like anymore It didn't come... Suddenly like bun at once, so I'm also happy that after it never really happens anymore.

00:35:20: But for sure this gave me something to work on.

00:35:23: So the same evening i was calling with him and I think Also After The Tour de France already because then in the end I couldn't do It still lost a tour within four seconds.

00:35:41: but what I had to experience then maybe was even a bigger lesson for me than if i would have won it.

00:35:48: because now that I lost it, still saw my family and everybody loves the same way.

00:35:55: Nothing changed!

00:35:56: So actually... It's also a blessing for me to lose that Tour de France and to experience these kind of things Because after that I felt almost like sort-of relief or free You know, like I knew before also.

00:36:15: Like if i lose it that doesn't wouldn't care for them you know?

00:36:20: They still love me the same way but Still somewhere in your mind It's so strong That you think is not.

00:36:29: But then by experience... In real..I really saw that didn't change anything.

00:36:35: So I think By losing this through the front it was almost a blessing that I really saw like, oh no it doesn't change anything.

00:36:45: Like they still love me how i am and not because...I'm running you know?

00:36:51: For them it does make a change.

00:36:54: It's so amazing at how we know these things in our mind And kind of tell us the stories.

00:36:57: but some lessons You can only have through a loss If your winning everybody!

00:37:09: Yes, everybody wants something.

00:37:10: Everybody's calling but if you lose your mom is the one who's calling and she still there.

00:37:17: it's kind of those lessons that you can't really have without seeing them live Back.

00:37:23: in those days You were a team at SD Works And from outside looking-in It seemed like difficult place to be.

00:37:37: You've said in interviews that you weren't the person, really are.

00:37:43: Didn't allow yourself to be fully flourishing.

00:37:48: Tell me four days ago or five days ago now... ...you won being YOU!

00:37:59: You actually said an interview previously where a colder version and now it's the warmer version of you?

00:38:07: Did you have a little moment of being like, I told you so?

00:38:10: I can do it my way.

00:38:11: No i think also because... ...I never allowed myself to change.

00:38:17: So even in my old team.. ..I knew that It was not really wished how I was.

00:38:23: sometimes You know Like Being emotional and Yeah Be-being so open Often they taught me You know, like that wasn't a good thing to have because also for the outside world media and everything they will take you on it.

00:38:45: But I never allowed myself to change in these times And i tried at one point To become a cooler version and be more harsh from the outside but... ...I managed or saw already pretty fast.

00:39:03: that wasn't me and if I would try so, i knew my career wouldn't be long because i wouldn't able to really enjoy it.

00:39:15: And If you cannot really be yourself It's going take a lot of energy from you.

00:39:23: You're just not able keep doing as long Now.

00:39:28: where am now?

00:39:32: And also, you know like everybody sees me as the person I want to be and am.

00:39:39: So that just gives so much more freedom... ...and also you're just continue a little bit more relaxed.

00:39:51: You don't lose energy by trying to force yourself in or hold yourself into something else.

00:40:01: It's different!

00:40:02: Yeah, for sure.

00:40:04: I'm super proud that... ...I always stayed close to myself and never let my self change by others' expectations or what the other wanted to see from me because i know by staying so close with myself.. ..i will be able continue winning or being a good rider, a good teammate as long as possible and I think when at that times, i would have changed it.

00:40:38: I just not sure if still with a fun and be successful rider because yeah... It takes just a lot of joy away in the end!

00:40:52: Its also very important to feel free at your place Trying to be somebody else.

00:41:01: Yeah, I mean it's so true right when you have to kind of fend off the competition You have to talk to media.

00:41:08: do all these things at least in your team?

00:41:09: You want to be in that safe space where you can just live It out and like you said earlier if you're having fun at the dinner table then you're laughing.

00:41:16: Um, you know for sure are going to suffer enough In the coming days.

00:41:21: um i find yeah interesting how people try To put their perception onto athletes of what they think there should be.

00:41:33: It seems kind old school,

00:41:34: I don't know... Yeah it was also very old-school sometimes but luckily i found a really good place to be at.

00:41:45: that's

00:41:45: awesome all right.

00:41:47: let me put a thesis on the table and please tell me where am wrong?

00:41:52: I believe movement is single most underrated mental health intervention we have.

00:41:59: The more people Medicaid scroll and talk about problems, they could potentially walk out.

00:42:06: you've built move to dream And You know I've done something similar.

00:42:13: but my challenge like you and I and other athletes We're the one who found our talent through our bodies.

00:42:22: Like we have that natural connection you know, your talent in life through your body.

00:42:28: Is it honest for us to say that movement is the solution... ...to many of the world's problems?

00:42:35: To a lawyer who's working sixty hours in Rotterdam?

00:42:38: Yes and no because I see your point also.

00:42:42: For example if you're not healthy or Yeah You have disability for example then for sure this changed something but still i'm very big believer.

00:42:55: In any form, going outside movement is a medicine.

00:43:01: So either you're too busy or... You suffer from something still if you go outside and take the fresh air And feel the sunshine on your skin when listening to birds singing.

00:43:18: Still this is like a medicine Just movement getting your pretty going, and making space to think.

00:43:31: To kind of free our mind because in these days we are so stuck with whatever it is.

00:43:38: It's important for us to have moments to free our minds into fine-space Because also there where creativity comes from I believe And where dreams start to build For me... it's still a very strong medicine.

00:43:56: Yeah, I mean obviously i'm playing devil's advocate right?

00:43:59: Like i am probably as addicted to sports as they come and always have been but this is like an ongoing thing for you!

00:44:08: You were speed skating...like you started as a speed skater right yeah um you started coaching kids in speed skating.

00:44:18: ten years later or somewhere around there, you created this foundation.

00:44:23: What do you actually do?

00:44:24: Like what's the underlying theme of... ...of what you do with Move to Dream?

00:44:30: Still we're figuring out how to give it more form Or like for example maybe have some events in the future.

00:44:43: So still we are at a beginning phase and finding ways to get things going, but for me most important is also that there's just you know like this really something I believe in and i want to put energy and effort into it because It's something.

00:45:02: I have seen from close by young people struggling with their mental health And I also see the movements or are they're doing too?

00:45:12: For example a running club or cycling club like community, where they meet people.

00:45:20: Where do you go sport together?

00:45:24: This is something so strong that I want to be involved there and get the word out of it because i have big podium even in my career!

00:45:37: It's also not always easy for me put energy into this project during my career but It's something I really want to do also because i see and feel like it gives me energy, you know?

00:45:48: Like... ...I really believe in this message.

00:45:52: And I really wanted get the message out as much people as possible so that at some point during my career is then best for it Because now most of them have reached what they think to spread this message, so at the moment it's more about spreading a message but for sure in future we will build more around.

00:46:16: Yeah I do agree like i can see personally with my kids and friends all these things.

00:46:26: its amazing how many knots are ahead by just going outside and running and moving.

00:46:34: Demi be mindful of your time.

00:46:36: you have won everything now.

00:46:40: You've run the tour, The Giro of the Vuelta you have taken the mountain jersey in all three.

00:46:46: it's history that nobody can take away.

00:46:49: we're sitting here and a seven weeks time roughly the Tour de France Femme starts again.

00:46:56: yeah

00:46:58: what is pulling you there?

00:47:00: It mostly just being able to put on the Jealousy again because like two years I didn't manage to do it again, but the Tour de France is just an amazing event.

00:47:15: And... ...I really love the challenge of overcoming every day and fighting for the Gelo jersey!

00:47:29: It's something that i enjoy a lot.

00:47:34: I just want to win it again.

00:47:37: It's something i have in me and also, you know like actually... ...I noticed already at the beginning of the podcast that was yellow instead of pink Like its is just something what almost burned into my brain That I wanted do this again.

00:47:52: so yeah.. I don't know.

00:47:54: Its one of these events which I really love.

00:47:58: It going out?

00:47:59: It finding.... Again dealing with pressure living from the headwind.

00:48:07: You said you want to farm in the mountains and a dog, quite alive maybe some kids down that line?

00:48:15: And at the same time... ...you are the woman who attacks on The most iconic climbs of the world.

00:48:24: Do think That personality-that part has to wait until your finished or slowly kind letting both of them live together?

00:48:33: No, yeah.

00:48:34: We try slowly to manage boat off course but I mean we have a beautiful apartment...we don't have a garden yet.

00:48:43: But uh..We live in the beautiful place in Switzerland and i'm surrounded by mountains here.

00:48:48: And if you go for dog walk ,I really enjoy it.

00:48:53: That's also important that next your career or fight on bike.

00:48:58: You know, like that you also find rest in the person who are off-the-bike.

00:49:07: I think it brings a lot of confidence for the bike.

00:49:12: That's not your only life so now i try to manage both.

00:49:18: but having a real farm somewhere on mountains is probably something what comes after my career because... A garden?

00:49:30: keep track of my garden right now because I'm just too little home, but it's for sure something that i really would love in the future.

00:49:38: I noticed

00:49:39: there is always a mountain for you... Is your form of torture going to the beach?

00:49:45: Would that be the hardest thing for you?

00:49:47: No actually also like an off season and I'd like to be on the beach charge the batteries, but no yeah.

00:49:56: The mountains also maybe because I'm from the Netherlands and we don't have mountains there.

00:50:01: so it's something that what i really truly appreciate Because I know It can be flat and boring And the mountains they always seem to bring some drama.

00:50:16: They make you feel small.

00:50:18: On the same time I am too curious about knowing what is over-the top to see the other mountains or sea, so it's almost screaming my name from.

00:50:30: come find out your some adventure.

00:50:36: Yeah I don't know... The adventure for me is important.

00:50:39: For me driven by adventure and curiosity.

00:50:42: honestly i just want to wish you all very best for rest of this season!

00:50:45: I truly appreciate taking time.

00:50:49: coming in going mental.

00:50:51: We have a closing question traditionally on this podcast.

00:50:55: When is the last time you went mental?

00:50:58: The less than when I meant mental, that's for sure was last Sunday!

00:51:03: Very cool i can imagine.

00:51:04: well again congrats on an awesome season so far.

00:51:07: all the very best and as i like to say keep the rubber side down.

00:51:11: thank you

00:51:12: thanks for taking your time.