Broken Bones, Tour Wins & Why Happiness Beats Pressure - Tom Pidcock

00:00:01: I don't like watching myself, so I won't listen to this podcast for example.

00:00:06: Two Olympic gold medals world titles in three disciplines at twenty-five looked one of the biggest teams in sport decided it wasn't working walked away from a contract that was three years ago.

00:00:18: You go

00:00:18: into certain situations and high pressure moments where mental strength really makes difference gives you an edge.

00:00:29: How in that moment do you park your emotions already roadside?

00:00:33: The thing that allows you to stay within the controllables.

00:00:36: I'm a person who hates waste, wasting time, wasting energy... If you're there and you are stressing or anxious about things which haven't even happened it's like It is just a waste of energy!

00:00:59: If I'm not saying okay, want to win a stage?

00:01:01: I wanna podium.

00:01:02: I wanna be top five or whatever it is then there's nothing to

00:01:08: fail at.

00:01:08: you know Tom Pitcock, two Olympic gold medals world titles in three disciplines simultaneously the outdoor stage at the age of a twenty-two and a habit of descending.

00:01:35: At one hundred kilometers an hour in Lycra.

00:01:37: that makes his sponsors probably quite nervous And the rest of us feel a little average.

00:01:43: He is also someone who had twenty five looked at one of the biggest teams in sport decided wasn't working on Walked away from a contract that was three years to go and built something smaller, from scratch.

00:01:55: I reckon most people would have stayed in collect of the salary but The Vuelta podium last year suggests he knew something... ...the rest of us didn't.

00:02:03: Tom!

00:02:04: Welcome to Pitcock.

00:02:05: Going Mental.

00:02:07: How are you mate?

00:02:07: Yeah

00:02:08: thank-you am alright.

00:02:09: i'm good happy to be here on camp so filling this rest day talking to you which is not a bad thing at all

00:02:18: Restay, where about are you?

00:02:19: Up in Sierra Nevada.

00:02:21: My first time here actually but our tour prep camp

00:02:24: All right and how's that working out?

00:02:26: Sierra Nevada seems to be the fashionable place for endurance athletes to go.

00:02:29: Yeah it is ridiculous.

00:02:30: It's a bit like Calpe in December.

00:02:33: I think there's some as only fourteen World Tour teams here might be wrong But um A lot of them have gone home.

00:02:39: now We're kind of staying later than then.

00:02:42: a lot of teams but yeah busy up here.

00:02:45: Fair enough, fair enough.

00:02:46: Tom we traditionally start this podcast with a standard question because we're kind of trying to figure out A global definition of going mental.

00:02:56: when you hear Going Mental what does that ring for?

00:03:00: You where it is?

00:03:01: Where does that take you?

00:03:02: if he could say go mental just straight up they sounds like Someone's going a bit nuts.

00:03:11: I Agree hundred percent lag for me going mental.

00:03:14: You know, the many devices that we have on our bikes and that we train with.

00:03:20: If one of them wouldn't work I'd go mental and just lose my shit right?

00:03:24: And just throw my toys!

00:03:27: That to me was going mental.

00:03:29: but going mental can be a crazy descent... Can be something more quiet.. Can be a night out.

00:03:37: lots of things.

00:03:37: We've had lots of answers from athletes people who all see it as something very different.

00:03:43: So if you think of going mental, what... You know?

00:03:50: Where does that take

00:03:51: me?

00:03:51: Okay okay well I think yeah straight away fuck goes into my mind.

00:03:58: is someone getting very angry with something?

00:04:03: but i think you could also look at in a way where maybe more relatable to the this podcast in the frame of mind that you go into certain situations and high pressure moments where I think mental strength really makes a difference, it gives an

00:04:24: edge.

00:04:32: in Leeds and you grow up around the chain gang.

00:04:44: The same roads, the same winters that produce the brothers.

00:04:48: what did that environment do to your standards before even knew what standards were?

00:04:54: I think it counts for a lot.

00:04:55: honestly where i grew up being a cyclist was bit of blessing.

00:05:04: we had so many group rides also inspirational people like the Brownleys which obviously when I was junior, trained a fair bit with them.

00:05:20: Like you say The Chain Gang is an incredible place to train on Tuesdays and Thursday evenings in their short ride intense.

00:05:32: it's really valuable.

00:05:35: you know, Lizzie Armistead not a Lizzie Dagon and big name.

00:05:43: And inspiration in Yorkshire, Yorkshire cycling?

00:05:48: You know there's many other that can't see.

00:05:51: also the crit scenes we had with a lot of good riders and a lot different group rides to ride on.

00:06:00: I never trained alone when i was young.

00:06:02: now it's different.

00:06:03: We have so many specific efforts actually get the most out of training.

00:06:09: But yeah, I think it just really everything there contributed to worry on now.

00:06:16: It seems like one of those things that shapes you as a person and having these characters and champions around is something that shape your idea.

00:06:28: what's actually possible?

00:06:30: How far can take this?

00:06:32: For sure everyone has different... Levels of there were different perceptions and what they think is hard work.

00:06:43: I was lucky in seeing actual hardwork, you mentioned the brownies... They would have been swimming in the morning but probably did a ride then come on the chain gang when we finished it at the end.

00:07:07: That's hard work and that's dedication.

00:07:09: I think also my daddy works really hard at work, he would come home late He'd get changed in five minutes And then we'd be late for the chain gang.

00:07:17: We'll be riding their full gas to get there on time.

00:07:20: Do the chaingang go-home?

00:07:22: Then have dinner.

00:07:24: You know...I'm pretty lucky that was kind of shown outside.

00:07:34: what actual hardwork is?

00:07:36: Yeah, because most people would think you want to start protective and you wanna start ease into things.

00:07:42: And it can be quite intimidating thing.

00:07:44: I mean certainly from the outside.

00:07:48: hearing the rumors of this environment as an athlete and standing on the other side of the fence is definitely something intimidating.

00:07:59: at what point did was something that you probably needed to change.

00:08:03: You spoke about intervals.

00:08:04: being so specific, you prefer writing on your own?

00:08:07: Is that simply a geographical thing?

00:08:09: or when you come back home do still jump in with the boys and have good

00:08:12: crack?".

00:08:34: That pressure and seriousness when I was young.

00:08:37: I took it.

00:08:39: Seriousness in a way that you know, you have to do.

00:08:43: You Know black-and-white kind of in the lines Whereas II took it seriously.

00:08:50: now wanted to perform but I did it in a wave having fun.

00:08:54: And then you know train chain gang is very You know?

00:09:00: He can't really say okay gonna Do five minute effort at this what's he knows?

00:09:03: just chain gang, you ride hard.

00:09:06: You get back to the chevon on their way home out of Otley and go full gas then... Then kind of gets to finish do a sprint.

00:09:14: And yeah I think over time it changed.

00:09:20: obviously now its gotten a lot more serious.

00:09:22: i'm also quite lucky that from where?

00:09:26: Lucky & Unlucky in how high performance everything is at level and depth as well.

00:09:35: But at least I had the years as a junior where i didn't have a power meter and you know, I could enjoy riding my bike.

00:09:42: And things like this.

00:09:43: now it's different

00:09:45: because your first world title was at seventeen right?

00:09:47: You came in super early uh... At that time you were still in that environment.

00:09:53: Right

00:09:55: Yeah!

00:09:56: I think also That environment then..I was on The Junior Academy with British Cycling um... Riding On A Track Like I had to do national track championships every year.

00:10:09: Didn't really enjoy the track, but it was just part of that.

00:10:12: The pathway is kind of dwindled a little bit now.

00:10:15: i think you know before It Was Really The Way That All British Riders Came Through.

00:10:19: You Know Cavendish G Stannard Swifty all These Guys.

00:10:24: They came through the Pathway With British Cycling and I Think it Was?

00:10:30: That Was also um I wouldn't say it was outdated But they They kept everything quite simple.

00:10:37: You know, our training was on Excel spreadsheets and I don't know.

00:10:40: maybe we went to training peaks at that point but no it's not power It was all quiet basic And i think that really kept a bit pure.

00:10:52: Yeah, yeah absolutely.

00:10:54: And I really want to touch on that.

00:10:55: and like forming also from a happy place which i think we have something in common.

00:10:59: but before We go there just finishing up on the history because you said your road with your dad To The Chain Gang Your brother is also a cyclist who's With You In Your Current Team.

00:11:13: What does it mean?

00:11:15: Having him around and having those routes kind of close.

00:11:19: Well, I'm very lucky.

00:11:23: You know to have him in the same team as me.

00:11:26: He also makes me really proud.

00:11:30: you know that what he's done just seeing because i know...he has more struggles than I do and every kind of way And it gives a bit perspective on how lucky I am.

00:11:46: That can work so hard have the mindset I do.

00:11:55: But yeah, just think it's great that you know i can be in a same team as him and like what was not last year before we raced together?

00:12:04: The only time he ever raced with me on tour of Britain which is really nice.

00:12:08: Yeah are you happy to touch those points?

00:12:11: What does this mean when he struggles more?

00:12:13: or what about him?

00:12:15: makes Your talent or make you feel like you've got, something of an edge?

00:12:21: Well he has ADHD so he struggles.

00:12:28: Everyday things are harder for him.

00:12:30: it's not that simple.

00:12:31: if there is a problem and needs to find the solution to fix it The amount energy takes him think about problems talk with people who need help solve them Do the training and it's I. you know, I don't fully understand that.

00:12:54: I still give him some shit sometimes for they come on But have You know It?

00:13:01: I tried to I try to.

00:13:03: yeah, I love it.

00:13:03: That seems to be a definitely your Yorkshire leads kind of brotherly thing giving each other shit in

00:13:09: character

00:13:10: across line talking about struggles perhaps some setbacks.

00:13:18: I mean, i find it absolutely phenomenal your ability to come back and of course we have to start in Tokyo.

00:13:26: six weeks out you break a collarbone five different places.

00:13:32: A few days later You're sitting on the bike And there's The chance that yes That plate will most likely hold But like In preparation There is serious risk Of infection Having stitches all this kind.

00:13:46: And

00:13:47: how do you make the calculation, not medically but in your head?

00:13:51: How did he decide that this is a risk worth taking on daily basis.

00:13:55: Good question I think there's alot of layers to it because different people like i was talking yesterday with my physio used to work at football and when player got injured they'd often just fly back home country Really have a clue what was going on and they just turn up one day in the eyes better They won't really work to fix it.

00:14:22: Yeah, I can do that idea like i Have because I know how hard is getting shape right?

00:14:30: And now responsibility to be in shape.

00:14:32: perform So the longer you leave it every day.

00:14:35: Every Well say our but everyday That your not on the bike You're losing shape.

00:14:41: It's gonna Be A big amount of time when you come back.

00:14:43: and I think Yeah, when I broke my collarbone.

00:14:47: It wasn't even annoyed though it was just like right?

00:14:49: Just accepted what it was.

00:14:51: I think i'm pretty lucky really.

00:14:53: I mean sit that hit the side of a post fan at sixty k now on my tt bike.

00:14:59: They did a u-turn in front me and I broke My collar bone On The A pillar And the only impact.

00:15:05: and then I flew about twenty meters down the road Had a cut on my hip and a sprained ankle basically and smashed the plastic yield cup on my shoe, and that was all I did.

00:15:17: So i mean...I'm pretty lucky!

00:15:20: Yeah just once-once I was there lying on the floor..i just you know wasn't angry....I think it's a waste of energy when you're stressed or your...there was a point.

00:15:31: this happened.

00:15:32: so i was just focused.

00:15:34: right.

00:15:34: okay chill out had a pizza from the way home organized surgery.

00:15:40: two days after in Gerona Dr.

00:15:45: Casanova and Marty, they did a great job And then the work started there.

00:15:53: really

00:15:54: Yeah it's funny because that same team has kind of put me together A few times.

00:16:00: but how in that moment do you park your emotions already roadside?

00:16:05: The only good thing I can right now is get some fuel That i feel like just move on especially so close to the Olympics.

00:16:14: You know, it was a whole drama at that time as well.

00:16:17: The Olympics had been moved.

00:16:19: Like what is the thing that allows you to stay within the controllables?

00:16:25: Yeah I think i'm a person that hates waste right Wasting Time wasting energy.

00:16:31: and I think it comes back to that like if If you're there your stressing or your your anxious about things that haven't even happened It's just a waste of energy they worry about when he happens.

00:16:44: yeah that point it was like okay right we go and get the x-ray at hospital.

00:16:49: um went to Pugshirda they they the scan was rubbish.

00:16:54: It showed there's broken in one place, then it was broken is seven.

00:16:59: so were just going back to Andorra staying their hotel.

00:17:02: tomorrow I'll go see Drona because i'm sleeping in Big Myer At The Time.

00:17:09: Yeah, the work starts then.

00:17:10: I think also when i'm under under pressure and times against me everything comes out And I Work even harder.

00:17:17: you know every every effort counts?

00:17:20: It kind of brings more out of me as well.

00:17:23: yeah That's really interesting.

00:17:24: I find that actually quite relatable that it sounds like if there is a deadline and There's a setback and Then You Kind Of need to muster up all your courage.

00:17:34: But you Know You Kind of have these moments throughout Your career When You look at least from The outside in going to Paris, Paris Olympics.

00:17:44: A few weeks earlier you had to pull out with COVID and is there nothing within that just wonders like okay gee whiz.

00:17:54: this could be a long-term thing?

00:17:56: This could something where I'm undoing And as an athlete i understand it hundred percent.

00:18:02: but for the listeners Where do draw line between being willing put everything on and making a rational

00:18:09: decision.

00:18:10: Yeah, that's the thing because not many people know about it but I have chronic knee pain in my left knee for the same... you know?

00:18:21: ...I push things, try to come back quickly obviously quite with within reasonable timeframes.

00:18:36: you know, I'm getting checked and everything.

00:18:38: And not being stupid.

00:18:40: but when I joined in the off they said that couldn't ride... The shoes are was riding at a time?

00:18:47: I had to try different ones.

00:18:50: Yeah i did few days of testing on them out and buy because there's also one still might like that.

00:18:56: then I picked these shoes.

00:18:57: I rode them.

00:18:58: Then next day went out training knee pain.

00:19:01: One of only times have ever got into car in training ride and we pushed that way too much.

00:19:08: I raced the next weekend with knee pain, but there was a three-day race.

00:19:14: Hope VARI think it was called my first ever pro race?

00:19:17: The day after the race, I did a little easy ride down the coast in Nice before I flew home or... I don't know what to do.

00:19:26: And my power balance is like seventy thirty something.

00:19:30: Whoa!

00:19:31: There should have just been this knee pain me sort of out But we kept pushing.

00:19:37: And yeah, now I have chronic knee pain already for the rest of my career.

00:19:40: So that's when if you don't take the necessary measures and take the time you need then it can bite back.

00:19:48: Yeah so i mean For the non-cycling listeners seventy thirty means That your pushing seventy percent Of power through one leg and normally this You know up to a three four percent variance is probably what It should be.

00:20:01: but Is that?

00:20:02: I think most people are like fifty one forty nine or Yeah, it's never really a big difference.

00:20:09: I think

00:20:10: yeah It's never a good sign anyways because unfortunately Through your knee pain i've had to borrow some of your rehab tools throughout my career and The more you see the power dropping on one side going up but its Never A Good Sign.

00:20:27: Do You Think That's External Sponsor Pressure You Know Needing To Perform Having Someone Else?

00:20:35: I think that was for sure because you know my first months in the in INEOS, turning pro.

00:20:45: it was yeah.

00:20:48: That wasn't a mistake we made and also Kurt who's been with me since for eight nine years.

00:20:54: now they're also inside... It was also a mistake that we pushed on.

00:21:03: No, because I turned to him for everything.

00:21:05: For advice and we didn't take the time needed there.

00:21:09: And that was a mistake.

00:21:12: Is he kind of your soigneur or what kind of role does he have in your career?

00:21:17: Well He was my coach For a long time...he still oversees That But i don't really know how to describe it but he oversees Everything.

00:21:32: you know wise head and advice, he was in Ineos.

00:21:37: I had a coach.

00:21:38: And my other coach.

00:21:40: they worked together to create the trainings.

00:21:44: He comes with me for them out on bike race plans.

00:21:46: You know pet talks everything you know motivation Me's just The guys Been with me through it all.

00:21:57: basically since I what?

00:21:58: Since second year under twenty three?

00:22:01: Yeah, I think it's so important having someone like that in your corner.

00:22:06: It is so underrated and having somebody who kind of takes the ten thousand foot view at times you know?

00:22:11: And invests into a way but able to do that.

00:22:14: because let us be honest You are unique character Like in pro cycling.

00:22:20: i feel everybody is meant to be a cog In this system.

00:22:26: And here you are going out.

00:22:28: You're winning mountain bike races, your cyclocross world champion... ...you doing a whole variety of things.

00:22:35: Do you think that's something you need to keep you engaged?

00:22:41: To keep you entertained?

00:22:44: I think the reason why i did all these disciplines is because.. ..I was good at them and could win racers.

00:22:52: That's why we work hard isn't it ?

00:22:54: To win ,to perform

00:22:56: to

00:22:58: smash new goals.

00:22:59: So I think that's the main reason, and once I became World Champion Cyclocross... ...I did another Winter as a world champion but didn't put time in before.

00:23:10: it was tough You know?

00:23:11: That is the hardest discipline for me by far.

00:23:16: It has been hard for me to perform.

00:23:19: The amount of time i need be one hundred percent.

00:23:24: but also as a discipline is the hardest like It's.

00:23:27: it's the winter.

00:23:28: It's cold The days are short, its dark Like a side cross.

00:23:33: race isn't an hour or something in our But you after he drives to the race You do a recon your warm-up.

00:23:40: you have to warm up properly.

00:23:41: Why I do at least then from the first two seconds of the race?

00:23:46: You know if there's gonna be good or bad Because we're sprinting down the start straight and yeah It counts from the get-go.

00:23:56: And then, you know... All this mental energy for the days.

00:24:00: it's really tough and how guys do it full winter.

00:24:04: I don't know if that helps.

00:24:06: a lot of them live in our Belgium.

00:24:08: That is where most racers are but The last two years i haven't done it so i couldn't motivate myself to Do it!

00:24:17: Also at time we need put into road how to shoot camps.

00:24:22: Yeah, I said you know this year.

00:24:23: I want to go back But when you get into the road season and you know only in June?

00:24:27: I'm like already like fucking.

00:24:30: but if we have to do If two cross You know um yeah, okay love it by the same time at like the end that did there.

00:24:39: The older you get the less of this energy.

00:24:41: you have to just do everything, you know It's a runs out.

00:24:44: I think your thing is a bit finite.

00:24:45: The mountain bikes are different.

00:24:47: nothing is nice together way from the road to a different environment, I find it so easy compared to every other discipline.

00:24:59: To just jump on the bike if i'm in good shape and I can perform... And that also makes it enjoyable for me.

00:25:08: It's taking the piss a little bit isn't?

00:25:12: That is why else I enjoy it so much

00:25:21: new, if you want to say cycling superstars who are coming out and performing across various disciplines.

00:25:28: And arguably you've done it better than anyone.

00:25:30: with two Olympic golds I mean that's nothing to scoff at!

00:25:35: Then come in the middle of season just jump into a World Cup such as last week and come away...with a win.

00:25:45: What i'm really trying Is that the playfulness you need to actually perform?

00:25:52: Because when I look at and from outside, it does like a happy place.

00:26:01: You don't strike me as an angry bloke who just needs hate in order for

00:26:10: things to go sideways.

00:26:17: Like, I had this thought climbing up here the other day and like UNOX was here in January while we were in Chile.

00:26:25: And well... We were riding at thirty-five degrees and they were on a turbo trainer for four weeks!

00:26:32: Yeah everyone's not in right?

00:26:34: I'm thinking there is no way that i would do four weeks on a Turbo Trainer.

00:26:41: How much i get paid.. I don't care.

00:26:43: I'd quit before it did that.

00:26:45: There's NO WAY I would do that.

00:26:48: And then, it's just... People have their motivations come from different places and mine comes from enjoying in.

00:26:56: if i can't enjoy it Then the performance isn't going to come.

00:27:00: Well

00:27:00: find unique because you moved right?

00:27:03: You signed a contract with INEOS A team thats known for like marginal gains The very fine tuning sleep optimisation All of things that came.

00:27:17: And you have an absolute standout, opening year.

00:27:22: Smash races left right and centre had that infamous descent on the Tour de France.

00:27:26: who could forget images vicariously living through it?

00:27:29: but then I feel like its so kind of opposite to your character You decided step away after a while.

00:27:38: Is this something where now build according to your own strength?

00:27:46: You know being been here is and I have you know, everyone around me Believes in me supports.

00:27:54: Me.

00:27:56: We're all in this This mission together In a mission to just be as good as we can be.

00:28:02: And i think you know the team that I joined?

00:28:07: Now when the Tour de France this year we can pick our races were already growing so fast It makes every little success a success.

00:28:20: Whereas in another team, it would just be expected and as well As the performance side which is you know obviously its area's fantastic I mean that level of coaching and knowledge of physiology nutrition Is better than i've ever experienced.

00:28:40: Also The kind Of project of building A Team That more involved in than you know, and any other like when I was under twenty three week by manager set up TPR which is Tom Pid got racing.

00:28:58: Which has now Trinity... ...which was a team basically for me before i went to Ineos so i could still do cross and mountain bike And..I think they're also you know as involved.

00:29:13: Get the light thing these things also really interest me and creating a project in there Having success different ways.

00:29:21: I think this is also something that really really wrote specifically create it create a story basically, so what?

00:29:26: I'm trying to say It's not just about performance of the winning.

00:29:30: What mate you're twenty six now.

00:29:32: You won your first world title at at seventeen And you touched on expectations There which if you were World Champs at seventeen Born into the British system again blessing and a curse, you know You're following in some big footsteps.

00:29:50: kind of the expectation is for you to win At all times does that?

00:29:57: You ever kind of weigh on you or use somebody who switches off to that and just you know focus internally.

00:30:04: I think I think winning still young was A Blessing and a Curse.

00:30:12: Like my first world title, when I was seventeen in Cycle Cross.

00:30:17: There i had like... What's it called now?

00:30:22: Not depression but low mood.

00:30:25: and you know as a young teenager going through that and figuring everything out actually the best thing could ever happen to me because That I couldn't control it, you know whatever your thinking.

00:30:47: or however.

00:30:47: You feel is It's irrelevant.

00:30:50: and also i kind of was in this A cycle of like i'm just gonna...I Kind Of Was competing with This thing?

00:30:59: And Like i'm going to still succeed even if you don't want me To kind of think.

00:31:03: and yeah i won the cross worlds nationals junior pirate roubaix.

00:31:08: those are races.

00:31:10: Pantra World Champion all in this period where I had a mood and i think that made me you know resilient to outside pressures as well because You know, that cross Well title.

00:31:25: I only lost one will cup that year when they did crash on my chain came off or something?

00:31:31: Only last one race at yeah.

00:31:32: So I could only lose really.

00:31:35: And also II built myself up so much.

00:31:38: the down afterwards was It was terrible.

00:31:41: I didn't know what to do anymore, like this goal had been in my head for a year and i learned that you can build yourself up so much.

00:31:48: You have to stay more on the level So that you build up these big goals but then you don't like blow me off a cliff afterwards And...I kind of forgot where your question was But I've just gone around.

00:32:02: Yeah no it's fantastic!

00:32:05: The thing that really struck me is that you said, if YOU don't want me to.

00:32:11: I'll keep going even IF YOU DON'T WANT ME TO!

00:32:13: Who's you?

00:32:15: You is my low mood... My brain was telling me things or the other things like.. Like i dont wanna ride....i dont like riding all these things ummm and i'm like yeah i do because If i don't like riding then why have been doing it over a life already?

00:32:33: so i think yeah just uh.

00:32:37: and massive accelerated learning curve, not even a learning curve.

00:32:42: Just under learning about myself on my own head I guess?

00:32:47: Yeah just proper internal boxing match because that's in the end what makes you right.

00:32:53: And i find that you need to ask those questions over again as why do want go out training?

00:33:00: Why Do You Want To Go And Ride The Tour?

00:33:04: Because you've publicly said like wanted to ride the tour, and this was such a big dream of yours.

00:33:09: And you know everything came

00:33:11: together.".

00:33:12: Then your first tour like yes... You had a stage win on top of Alpe d'Huez but overall it wasn't particularly enjoyable experience.

00:33:26: Yeah I think that's great fun!

00:33:28: But then afterwards yeah The Tour is so intense The spotlight and the media pressure.

00:33:38: And, you know having to kind of not explain yourself but tell people that they're asking quite like yeah I'm one of their favourites for today.

00:33:53: You've got to be maybe feel really shit or if your feeling good then do rubbish.

00:34:02: It's just a really intense place and I think if it is not going well, its miserable.

00:34:09: Its not nice place but i think the biggest race in the world was the coolest racing ever.

00:34:13: so when you go as well there isn't any better place to perform.

00:34:23: But yeah thinking about having expectations that this year im not going with an expectation and the rest will come.

00:34:33: And if I'm not saying okay, i want to win a stage... ...I wanna podium.. ..i wanna be top five or whatever it is then there's nothing to fail at you know?

00:34:44: I think also like when he was saying about winning so early- I could only lose!

00:34:52: If that pressure comes from outside its ok but when it starts building up inside Then all goes wrong.

00:35:01: And then the year after juniors, when I was under twenty three there as in a hotel for too long before the World Championship Cyclocross.

00:35:10: Think it wasn't was in Falkenburg?

00:35:12: Yeah and just everything playing out like...I'm not nervous!

00:35:16: Then I started playing my head.

00:35:19: Like I need to be nervous.

00:35:25: I had nothing and it just shows how little things can make a big impact.

00:35:39: Yeah, in the grand tour this is something as one day performer right?

00:35:44: And most people have certain days of their year that are particularly important.

00:35:53: You're champion you love winning Amazing.

00:36:03: You're losing seventeen days in those three weeks, you know?

00:36:07: Essentially...

00:36:07: Yeah-yeah-yeah

00:36:09: Take me into that a little bit.

00:36:10: yeah I mean for me is That's also one of the super difficult things.

00:36:15: i'm like you say.

00:36:17: I would say I value myself on being that guy who can perform On The Day and when I highlight it that day I am there hundred percent.

00:36:27: um I'm ready y'know at my grand tour I think the world to last year was massive for me.

00:36:35: It wasn't my biggest achievement on paper, but if you almost enjoy a ball or whatever... ...objectively that I concentrated and there were three weeks.

00:36:52: it's been a massive thing!

00:36:55: To be that focused is not an easy task especially, you know someone like me who's... You can see I do different disciplines.

00:37:08: Having stimulus all the time.

00:37:09: i've been excited but they have to be serious and which is fine!

00:37:15: I enjoy it.

00:37:15: but then when it goes wrong there are so many different factors And for three weeks its intense.

00:37:21: Like you say There was racing on a podium.

00:37:27: I could build bow, i should have won the stage if it wouldn't cancel for all the protesters whatever.

00:37:30: So he's going great and then its easy.

00:37:33: but when you're fighting for a top ten at each age your like fighting for top ten is just like The motivation to stay in that right headspace.

00:37:44: For me It was really struggle with that because Its not worth it what im getting out of it You know.

00:37:51: so yeah its tough.

00:37:53: But i think last year made me realise what I can achieve and how much satisfaction it could give when i do.

00:38:04: What would you say did different in that prep, was there something within the team with rituals?

00:38:10: Do have rituals found anything to keep you engaged or coming back like you said the controllables but also a place of motivation being fired up about this childhood dream

00:38:24: I think, well one thing is we have a really you know...I want to say family kind of vibe in the team where..you know.

00:38:34: We're in it together and everything i feel part of it all The whole project ,the whole team.

00:38:42: And that also gives me like- I can't let people down You know?

00:38:47: On bad days That's what gets me through In good day.

00:38:50: obviously You you erase yourself for your self, you know.

00:38:56: Yeah trying to win is just.

00:38:57: you know the mindset

00:39:00: and

00:39:02: But yeah we've done this mission with all Trying new things We'll have like feel this.

00:39:09: You know how skin in a game I think that's what really made a difference obviously?

00:39:15: I think the training was Made a big difference A lot of nutrition, all these things that I've done differently to before.

00:39:24: Obviously it also helped me be at a better level.

00:39:30: Talked about skin in the game like what does that mean for your team?

00:39:34: For you?

00:39:35: It's kind of obvious because of course Your performance The whole team stands and falls with You which is a responsibility but Like we always said blessing and accursed But skin-in-the-game for the Team.

00:39:47: Well i think it comes down too what this team is in that we're representing, well first and foremost brands owned by the owner of a team.

00:40:00: And Pinarello for example for me as brand I have big relationship with it...I've given value to have a responsibility to perform because they made them out on bike which I won Olympic title on, they made a Cyclocross bike.

00:40:22: Which I want the world title on just for me and you know so i owe them...I feel like..i owed him what he did also coming to this team from situation before with INEOS yeah!

00:40:37: What they promised me You Know?

00:40:38: They could do it for me that they believed in me They wanted my team They wanted me come here And they wanted help me To perform to my best and they would do whatever it took to help me get the most out of myself.

00:40:54: And then It wasn't like right.

00:40:56: We want you to come here, and You have to win the Tour de France on this.

00:41:01: and this is like we Want you in our team?

00:41:04: We think you can add value to our team or we're gonna give you everything But we can.

00:41:09: that you need to perform and then there rest is up to you.

00:41:12: I'm.

00:41:12: what does such a healthy healthy environment today, and I think

00:41:16: Yeah, it is fascinating because yes that is fantastic and thats what you want.

00:41:21: people believing in you but other people would argue well thats just a massive weight on your shoulders.

00:41:28: And like I said you owe someone...and the fact that drives you i find really interesting cause its something..I think responsibility in general probably not easiest to deal with has always come naturally to use as something you seek out?

00:41:44: I think i perform best when i have that responsibility.

00:41:50: Because sometimes struggle before, and obviously there's so many good riders there but you know race in your co-leader... I actually like struggling contradictory to what this Netflix documentary made out about the tour which was completely fumbled not even in chronological order.

00:42:12: Quickly, take us into that.

00:42:13: Please you have to.

00:42:14: since you brought it up

00:42:16: I actually haven't watched it but i know for a fact That It's not in the correct order.

00:42:22: First of all and they make out that me and Carlos Have this big thing rivalry within The team But we start at the race.

00:42:32: We are both there To do our best to perform For the GC.

00:42:42: I think it's very clear that, you know at some point one is going to be in front of the other and we're gonna have to sacrifice on point but... It made out that i'm racing carlers.

00:42:57: But actually im just trying to explore what i can do y'know?

00:43:01: And how far i could push myself while doing the mountains.

00:43:07: And yeah makes me as a bad guy.

00:43:11: Yeah, I actually when i'm there with um You know other leaders.

00:43:16: I struggle to really focus on myself because I also think about them in a way And I can't be selfish Which you actually need to be?

00:43:25: To get the most out of yourself.

00:43:27: So I think that is.

00:43:28: That is also something here where when I am at a race The guys are hundred percent committed to me and I've been just focused on being selfish Getting the most my self.

00:43:37: but cuz I know they're gonna rely on me to perform.

00:43:41: I think that is a, to me it's where i can perform my best.

00:43:47: It makes total sense right?

00:43:48: You're trying to prove yourself all year long.

00:43:50: you've got all these qualifications... ...you try and get the tour or do this things right.. And then you still have to prove your self within the team.

00:43:58: That seems like such an unhealthy place To actually perform because every time when we look at a team decision We are like well in our best interest trying to spread ourselves too thin, it's kind of weird.

00:44:13: Yeah and there was a lot other things which I'm not gonna go into but you know... Other people in the team though are different ideas about what i should be doing And blah blah blah.

00:44:27: But yeah fair enough

00:44:29: let's not go there because I would like To Go!

00:44:31: To The Point that You Made That You Didn't Watch It.

00:44:36: Okay Whether you watch results and whether you watch back Kind of episodes all these kind of things.

00:44:44: And the background I'm coming to from is that?

00:44:46: I never did, I Never watched results of races.

00:44:49: I never watched back another race.

00:44:51: aaaand i wonder if You know Yeah That's just something that drives you.

00:44:58: yeah no II don't like watching myself.

00:45:03: So I won't listen this podcast for example When it's out.

00:45:06: You don't have

00:45:08: to listen, you can just watch without the views up

00:45:14: And I Don't Watch Myself Race or Watch Back Races.

00:45:21: Probably Could Learn Something From It.

00:45:23: but i don't like too when i've done a race and then get away.

00:45:30: for example if im doing a stage race I call Beth my fiance after the stage.

00:45:35: I want her to tell me about her day, i don't wanna talk about my day like...I think she can see that on TV you know?

00:45:42: I'd like get away and talking bout something else.. I didn't really liked go more into sighting with so much in this world.

00:45:49: it's nice bein' the other side And then watching bike races that im not in.

00:45:55: It depends on my mood.

00:45:58: Sometimes I like watchin' them Still.

00:46:01: But Like Yeah, twenty-four didn't watch any bike races.

00:46:05: Didn't have any social media and I just didn't want anything to do with it.

00:46:09: And now i'm enjoying watching races again.

00:46:13: yeah cool um Let's go to that part when the cycling ends you said?

00:46:18: You like to call beth and She herself Seems to carry a similar kind of hustle culture to you Like you are certainly in a position where you don't need to do anything.

00:46:33: If you wanted, I think there's a good chance that you could retire today.

00:46:37: Beth is decorating most of the people in my social circles houses and... You guys keep it pretty real for living such an out-of-this world life?

00:46:50: Is your career background or how come you guys value

00:46:55: that?".

00:46:56: Yeah!

00:46:58: What we've always said was quite loud about this when we first started working together that Beth needs her own thing, because he's seen what girlfriends of cyclists can not be like.

00:47:15: Maybe it is a bit harsh but you know they kind just want attention and are your training all day?

00:47:21: But what about

00:47:22: me?".

00:47:22: And I think its really important.

00:47:25: she has her own value.

00:47:30: people know me and it's like, ah you're the girlfriend of Tom or... It is kind-of she's with me.

00:47:40: Not like I'm with her.

00:47:41: so its really important to be healthy that she has a her own thing.

00:47:46: and yes She's interior designer in Andorra and yeah Really proud of us just going great because also need the money, we're fine.

00:48:02: But for her to start she puts herself out there in a position to fail and that's quite a brave thing to

00:48:08: do.".

00:48:09: And yeah thank God she hasn't failed... She is doing very well but

00:48:12: it

00:48:13: was quite brave to do that I think.

00:48:18: Well if its any consolidation on this household you are handbag because of your ask my kids who's Tom?

00:48:24: Well Tom is best fiancee he used to go sometimes rides bikes.

00:48:30: But finishing on the fun part, we are privy to see some pretty epic footage of you going down some crazy descents having races with mountain bikers.

00:48:46: Going being chased by motorbikes and doing all these absolutely crazy but very cool-to watch descents.

00:48:54: is that something that you see as an obligation to fulfill, to Red Bull who's known to push limits and do these crazy footages?

00:49:03: Or is it just actually a chance to live out your eight-year old self.

00:49:07: Probably more the eight year old self side of things I think also.

00:49:15: why am i red bull athlete when first came about like...I couldn't have thought anything cooler.

00:49:20: It was like this stamp of certification you know, fucking cool athlete.

00:49:28: And I think yeah just doing that sort of stuff...I always love that stuff like rampage.

00:49:34: i watch all the downhill world cups for example Like..i love that side-of things and That's the stuff that I really do enjoy most getting less so as get older I see more risk in everything which then obviously makes things scary or not enjoyable.

00:49:59: But yeah, it's living out my eight-year old self like you say the fun stuff.

00:50:07: I would dare to beg to differ that you see less risk because you post a decent time around The Nürburgring as well.

00:50:13: You're a car your urban with petrol hedge.

00:50:16: Is that again?

00:50:17: That something where he just allow yourself to be someone else?

00:50:24: naivety in seeing the risk.

00:50:26: In that though, because so far nothing's gone wrong I mean have crashed car before but not very badly.

00:50:38: you know touch wood But i... That wasn't one of my super positions and said So Far therefore it doesn't jinx anything.

00:50:50: I haven't crashed this year so far.

00:50:52: It is just a fact.

00:50:55: I do like driving and when i have a chance, go and drive fast cars.

00:51:03: It's good to stay in it for some longevity and find different avenues.

00:51:09: Brad Stalberg describes quite nicely as this identity house that you can occupy.

00:51:19: not just being an athlete?

00:51:25: is a big thing for me and also the people around me that, you know It's all well in good.

00:51:33: like I For me We've built up slowly my career.

00:51:37: You know, I didn't go straight straight professional, you Know II I'd basically signed on my professional contract when I was a junior still but I did three years under twenty-three And we've taken things step by step.

00:51:52: i think having Keeping things fresh is what helps, you know being able to train so hard year after year and for me like I love training hard doing everything right but knowing that i have a week off there And i've got sometimes.

00:52:13: I do too much.

00:52:14: i have So Much stuff planned.

00:52:15: of course Stuff i want To Do.

00:52:16: That i can't do when i'm Training that.

00:52:19: um.

00:52:20: For example the last Last Year After The Jiro to Red Bull, I went into the Nurburgring.

00:52:25: I did a road trip and i had to sack off that roadtrip.

00:52:28: after one day in my car My mate continued.

00:52:31: then I flew to London early We got on to get my OBE And um...I just stayed there for three days.

00:52:39: I was hooked!

00:52:40: I was more tired after that week of it than I was afterwards.

00:52:43: Yes sometimes you don't do too much about.

00:52:45: It's how I work so hard That..i know that I can have this vent and do all these stuff when when I have those weeks off.

00:52:54: Right, thanks for being so relatable as a champion because i think that's something that definitely resonates with lot of people.

00:52:59: is you play hard but you also um yeah train hard and play hard.

00:53:04: uh closing question Tom?

00:53:07: When was the last time you went mental?

00:53:09: Oh...I

00:53:11: think these going mental questions are stumping me up today!

00:53:17: It's little things like because you're just in the same environment with the same people.

00:53:25: it's like ah, but I'm pretty sure he's got too much water and i'm going into the sauna.

00:53:29: And they want that much water.

00:53:30: or You know why is that scale there not there?

00:53:33: Or she's slamming that fucking door.

00:53:37: That's something That's for sure the most reason.

00:53:41: things

00:53:41: all of these that bother you a lot when he trained it When your writing thirty hours in a week.

00:53:45: It's yeah, exactly I went mental today looking back at some of your videos going and taking some those hairpin turns Tom honestly i really love what?

00:53:54: You guys are building And um its so cool to get.

00:53:57: have a little bit more over.

00:53:58: chat.

00:54:00: Wanted.

00:54:00: wish you were with best for the rest of season.

00:54:02: Kick some butt and thanks so much for taking an hour out.

00:54:05: view.

00:54:05: recovery day

00:54:07: Oh pleasure Thank you.