Kasia Niewiadoma: Suffering to Win

00:00:00: People saying, you know women should rather stay in the kitchen and this sport is too dangerous for women.

00:00:08: I mean i was like what's going

00:00:12: on?

00:00:14: I wanted to be likable.

00:00:18: I want it seen as a person that spreads out good energy and smiles, but then... ...I realized social media takes a lot of energy from me.

00:00:27: also when i was working with my psychologist he told me I should just unfollow all of the rivals And I did this because I started feeling so much better.

00:00:37: What is inside you?

00:00:38: You can't let go!

00:00:41: I really felt like I needed proof.

00:00:44: we are worthy in some ways.

00:00:46: Best suffering is when you can turn off thinking the moment they start thinking about like how many minutes to go or How far?

00:00:54: To the top of decline Or like if I can sustain the pace, or not.

00:00:59: That's when I started to back down.

00:01:02: So then I was like looking at those gloves and I'm like fuck i hate them.

00:01:06: And I took that off!

00:01:08: And all this sudden...I Was able to find a rhythm up the climb and now it said okay..i am killing It Now Going mental.

00:01:14: its like yeah doing crazy rides, like kill yourself.

00:01:18: just so I come and feel you cannot walk up the stairs.

00:01:35: Kasia how are you?

00:01:37: i'm really good.

00:01:38: what

00:01:40: about you ?

00:01:40: i am very happy to have you here healthy mostly no broken bones and walking around me.

00:01:49: after it's only been a few days since Milan San Remo and the famous Tupressa crash You're back on the bike.

00:01:57: yeah everything is more or less

00:01:59: Yeah, everything was good and thanks for having me here.

00:02:02: Thanks for giving a challenge of arriving to your place through bicycle path basically!

00:02:09: But yeah I'm doing well dealing with some little post-crash...I wouldn't call them injuries but just like the muscle problems let's say it is part of this sport or recovery process.

00:02:19: in some ways i guess you know best.

00:02:21: Well, I think it's something that a lot of athletes experience.

00:02:24: But you're back on the bike and you're more or less pain-free.

00:02:26: but take us into that like what does actually mean for you?

00:02:30: To be honest after every crash The first thing i do the next day is get on my bike.

00:02:36: That's the first thing that doctors say im not allowed to do.

00:02:40: In some ways they believe once u get on your bike just for easy spin You can assess yourself how bad the crash was.

00:02:48: On Sunday with Tay and my husband, we went for a very easy ride.

00:02:52: And then I was like okay i'm super sore but...I can ride.

00:02:55: so..i knew that the recovery was gonna come sooner than expected!

00:03:01: Also in some ways they believe active recovery is better than just laying on bed.

00:03:06: So yeah I kind of proceeded to do it every day trying more and telling myself that im fine

00:03:15: I'm fine.

00:03:15: The famous, i'm fine!

00:03:16: Everyone knows that i am fine.

00:03:19: but yeah with a lot of physio work and like stretches And personal exploration Of what's happening in the body you can always move forward.

00:03:28: What

00:03:28: does personal exploration look like?

00:03:30: Do have ritual or yoga Or is it something more specific?

00:03:35: So its more like...I try to listen to my body or observe assess where I feel tightness and pain, then connect it with other beds.

00:03:43: Then take into consideration the previous injuries that i would have or what will help me.

00:03:48: Of course you took help from Google Help as well!

00:03:53: I try to play to be my own physio but yeah...I always find some exercises and keep texting my physios questions so they always try to like help me understand where something could be coming from or how can I connect the pieces?

00:04:10: Like The Real Physio, or The ChatGPT Physio.

00:04:13: Both!

00:04:14: Real and chat yeah... Yeah

00:04:16: i find chat gpt one of those things because i regularly get messages From friends you know.

00:04:21: have You done having dealt with this chat?

00:04:23: GPt tells me i Have five days to live.

00:04:25: like it's always so extreme i Find chat gbt almost scary is you don't find It?

00:04:32: that way

00:04:33: Depends what questions you ask.

00:04:34: I always try to be more like positive, so i don't get negative answers in my life span is a little longer than the other

00:04:44: days Yeah but it just gives such opposite ends.

00:04:48: It's looking for an extreme almost to keep you engaged.

00:04:51: Have you ever had a really helpful answer?

00:04:55: I mean, last time i was trying different hair tats on my face.

00:05:00: That's a positive answer!

00:05:03: Fair enough if you come from a broken hip to new haircut... The whole thing is though like in cycling you crash so many times and we were talking before of air.

00:05:17: for me it always one crash per year.

00:05:19: that was kind of for the state and then I would slowly get back on the trainer.

00:05:23: Is it something you just used to?

00:05:25: Yeah, for sure!

00:05:27: If there is a season without one major crash that you DNF than its success right but part... There are always two different types of crashes like one crash where you crash quickly jump in your bike just have to put the bike aside and get into ambulance or the team car.

00:05:49: So, uh... The first crashes they happen more often because then you just like get some proper road rush but then at least we can carry on And then quickly forget an adrenaline is running so that it doesn't feel much pain until after the finish line.

00:06:05: Yeah!

00:06:05: That second crash was where there's no way You don't even consider getting back in your bag as if you hit a deck too hard.

00:06:15: I always hope that i don't crash in the way they need to get into ambulance because then it's a whole another experience of like getting into hospital and waiting for all tests.

00:06:28: You're sealed with your bibs shirts on, you are dirty... And then laying in bed full of people.

00:06:36: It is always tough day to go through.

00:06:41: But yeah definitely think we can not really avoid or you don't have much control over.

00:06:48: Okay, so this was the quote that really stuck to me?

00:06:52: It's like if it is not risk and top sport...

00:06:55: Yeah!

00:06:56: That one of the quotes I read take me into that.

00:06:59: So after the race i'm texting with my coach before we knew In our case Milano Soneremo, it's only a hundred fifty K. So its not like men's three-hundred Ks where you get super tired before your arrive to Chipresat in Poggio and so with my coach we're like how can we win this race?

00:07:18: And he is like... We go full gas on every climb and every descent because..

00:07:23: Because there are only one hundred and fifty Ks!

00:07:24: Exactly

00:07:25: yeah.

00:07:26: and then for some people that sounds fun Yeah.

00:07:32: Then I knew I need to take chances or seize opportunities everywhere i can.

00:07:38: Um,I knew the descent super well but when was doing it just wanted put pressure on every single rider and maybe you know... a little bit too much speed.

00:07:53: and that unfortunately happened in the corner I crashed.

00:07:57: so then i was such my coach like feeling guilty that all day.

00:08:00: Like, I did something wrong... That I took too much risk!

00:08:04: And his first answer was like without the risk it will be a top sport..and it kind of took my guilt-feeling away from me directly because you know how this is?

00:08:14: If you don't succeed you always have those Disappointment feelings or like you feel guilty of what could have been done differently.

00:08:21: So With that one short sentence, he made me feel so much lighter He lifted the weight off my shoulders and I was like yeah exactly Like this is there The top sport.

00:08:31: we take risk at all times And like ninety nine percent.

00:08:35: it works out in one person not.

00:08:37: so

00:08:39: How do you crash?

00:08:41: Hurt yourself significantly, and it's like we'll get to the images.

00:08:45: And we have to get to their reaction a little bit.

00:08:48: Yeah But then you feel guilty for like having pushed the envelope or having tried everything because essentially You were trying to win.

00:08:57: yeah

00:09:00: How do you feel?

00:09:01: take me into feeling guilty?

00:09:03: I think it's because You invest so much time in smart energy preparing yourself for this race and then your build is mental the kind of exciting feeling that okay, I'm gonna go there and do my best.

00:09:21: It's also a thank you to your teams, sponsors or coaches so everyone who could work into your preparations because one little mistake is all gone.

00:09:34: like chances are over it will take awhile before we can be back at same levels.

00:09:40: Yeah, anytime you take yourself away from being able to compete in the final.

00:09:47: You just feel I don't know...I just feel guilty because i feel like..i cannot even get a place where should be at or that i prepared myself for somewhere but i can not physically.

00:10:01: I just find it fascinating because disappointment comes to mind or anger, all those things which are really egocentric emotions.

00:10:10: Whereas you feel guilty towards your team mates maybe?

00:10:14: Towards everybody who's put everything else in Which i find really unique In sport which is often like an egotistical kind of endeavor but cycling Is much more a team sport right?

00:10:25: yeah

00:10:26: definitely There are so many people behind the scene that work for this one success or work for One person to then be able to cross a finish line first.

00:10:36: Yeah in perfect world, So um yeah I think they're like.

00:10:42: if you because in some ways i think i knew That it was It Was risk but maybe also my little stupidity that i know really wanted to push or put pressure on others in the places that maybe I could be like, okay whatever.

00:11:00: Even though i'm thirty-one and still have this feeling of wanting to know how to be furious but not calm and furious let's say so yeah it was a really crash for my own fault when that happened not immature, but irresponsible.

00:11:23: And maybe that made me feel just bad for the situation and okay.

00:11:29: on the other hand honestly speaking also I was really feeling bad about it because a lot of other people also crashed into me you know?

00:11:38: Because i wasn't on the road so all sides took their chances away from Anders.

00:11:44: So its like...I didn't do this purposely or did not clean on that, but also you see this part though.

00:11:53: You know it's like we all where the crashes happened all the time and It's part of this board is normal But it's awesome

00:12:03: now?

00:12:03: No, it's definitely not.

00:12:04: but what really struck me And yeah I'm sure you've had to go through many times Yeah...but Like What Really Got Me The Most was the reaction afterwards, at least some reactions.

00:12:18: Of course we always have this negativity bias so we focus on the negative reactions.

00:12:22: but I mean people saying you know women should rather stay in the kitchen and this sport is too dangerous for women.

00:12:30: i was like what's going?

00:12:33: How does this even come to your mind?

00:12:35: how did you feel?

00:12:37: To be honest not being affected by negative comments like this, because seriously when you go on Instagram and look at those people who write such a negative comment are just... People that for sure never sat in the bike even.

00:12:54: So I'm like why would she want to basically beat somebody whose laying already on their floor?

00:13:01: If that gives them pleasure or satisfaction then let it be.

00:13:04: but i also know there's huge amount of people that support us.

00:13:09: sport like how we see it.

00:13:11: so I mean, We cannot change the world or that online World and if you watch men's race Pogachar crashed but then he won't erase.

00:13:21: So It's like Crashes are just part of their racing part at this board.

00:13:27: And If someone interpreted in a way that we're worse Or were unable to ride back and we should stay in the kitchen Let them think that way.

00:13:38: I feel like if they want it, then They can have it but we will not be affected by it.

00:13:43: So you really?

00:13:44: Think it's more or Chad with twenty five followers who was sitting in his basement by itself.

00:13:49: It's no people who actually connected to the sport.

00:13:51: so you don't get

00:13:51: this know cuz Like i received a lot of likes support from People That uh, and now that they know about this board And then another day care about this course.

00:14:02: so i think that yeah within negative comments I don't know how was it for you, but i completely disassociated myself from like...I see the comments.

00:14:14: But they never affect me when I was younger!

00:14:16: I would just try to fix something online or present myself certain way..but with age also mature and become so confident of yourself that what's in your life doesn't get affected.

00:14:31: And is this a result?

00:14:35: And how do you get to this realization?

00:14:37: Because I feel like a lot of us gets stuck on this negativity bias all the time.

00:14:41: You see one hundred good comments, and then you see one person... Yeah exactly!

00:14:52: Do you have a ritual, do you have breathing pattern?

00:14:56: I don't know something where how to go from fight or flight and really being angry at this one person.

00:15:02: To actually just be the better person using your maturity.

00:15:06: Before I was really paying attention to presenting myself from a good side on social media and they wanted it to be likeable, or seen as the person that spreads out of good energy and smiles.

00:15:19: It's always in an upbeat mood.

00:15:21: but then i realized that actually Social Media takes a lot of energy out me And maybe I present my self as a good person But than people who they care about don't have so much to give anymore.

00:15:34: And that's when I was like, okay social media is just a tool where i can um fulfill my obligations with the sponsors for example or maybe one day i will use them as part of lifestyle or live off it when i retire.

00:15:53: but right now i find very often that it doesn't serve me too spend too much time on social media.

00:15:59: also once psychologist and he told me that I should just unfollow all of my rivals not to see what they're doing in their day, in their lives.

00:16:09: And i did that!

00:16:10: To be honest...I started to feel so much better.

00:16:12: otherwise it was comparing myself or feeling like I should do more hours on the bike where I would go into different training locations.. I always felt as if there wasn't enough and couldn't focus on my own process heaviness that I had to work through.

00:16:30: And yeah, it just feels...I think that i would spend too much time on the phone especially when traveling and being with a team you know?

00:16:38: You always kill the time with your phones.

00:16:40: so once they stop doing it..i just realized that life is so much better and easier!

00:16:45: So I think I cannot stick to it because

00:16:48: you're forever comparing yourself to like a glorified version

00:16:51: hundred percent Like you always kind of feel enough in some ways because you could be doing other different things, but also if your realize that social media heavily is just fake.

00:17:05: In some way we can take a picture now and say I'm here in Hawaii with the planes in the background sitting murderous or whatever like presenting our lives as beautiful one.

00:17:19: But then it's all Game or fate game, I would say.

00:17:26: Yeah

00:17:27: i do think there is a lot there.

00:17:28: you mentioned it.

00:17:29: you know Pogaccio crashes.

00:17:31: You have massive crashes in the sport In general.

00:17:35: men women right?

00:17:37: It's all together and just Really curious, because triathlon in that sense is probably one of the OG sports.

00:17:44: Yeah Of being equal with equal distances we race on the same day.

00:17:48: We raised the same course.

00:17:49: most of the time if not it's separated by a day or sometimes they tried like having them A year apart but The men would get celebrated for be so hard from a crash Like that and you know how tough over sported?

00:18:01: Is

00:18:02: yeah That this show also

00:18:04: their reaction?

00:18:05: just really Do you sometimes have that comparison?

00:18:10: It's interesting because I feel like the majority of people who watch sports are men, right.

00:18:15: Like...I always found it very interesting- I remember going to Tour de France for the first time when Taylor was racing and Alaphilippe was wearing yellow jersey And there were this flock of other guys running after him.

00:18:31: And I never saw such an image of like one guy being followed by other guys.

00:18:36: Like so excited for him wanting to take a selfie and then i was,like...I just cannot imagine at that time anime fanboy.

00:18:43: then it was super dominant seeing animic and like bunch of girls running after her in big picture or signature whatever we are still followed by the other guys.

00:18:55: That gave me insight into our sport watched by maybe ninety-five percent of guys.

00:19:03: It's changing, it's getting better which I'm super stoked and happy about because i can see more girls on the bike ride even here in Andorra there are more women with this great but still is like heavily decided by men and of course...I feel they always cheerful other guys.

00:19:20: But when it comes to woman we're perceived that We were just you know The girls or ladies on a bike and what are they doing?

00:19:29: until they, sometimes I remember having moments where some guys would start riding with me and i felt like maybe they thought that they need to go easier because i cannot keep up.

00:19:41: And only like... That will give more motivation but then you push hard on the climbs.

00:19:46: it wouldn't be okay.

00:19:47: actually women sport is quite hard as well.

00:19:50: yeah i think there's a prejudice around women.

00:19:54: Yeah definitely!

00:19:54: You spoke before and scientifically women's racing is shorter in cycling, right?

00:20:02: The reasons why?

00:20:03: okay well we can discuss because I mean... In general more endurance is probably more suited to woman's physiology.

00:20:11: If you look at Courtney Dovalta like do think that she would run twenty percent shorter than Kilian Journay?

00:20:17: Yeah Like it's impossible to think.

00:20:20: or an iron man the times are actually longer and closer but The evidence does show that because like you said, your race a little bit shorter.

00:20:31: You have to go harder all the time.

00:20:32: Yeah That is the thing.

00:20:33: To be honest there are some races where they want us to race for hundred sixty hundred seventy Ks and those races are easier than when we have one hundred twenty or one hundred thirty.

00:20:46: there was this one race in Holland for guys where the stages were over a hundred fifty Ks and I remember to hit my friend, he said that it's like the worst stage race because basically... The hard pace would be from start on.

00:20:59: Full gas?

00:21:00: Yeah!

00:21:00: And i do believe if all of us are always racing say hundred forty to hundred fifty That is when.. There isn't time just riding a pallet on catch up with others and like you know go to the team car, get some bottles.

00:21:15: but then that action is fully on.

00:21:17: And personally I would vote for having women and men resting at the same distances say happy medium, one hundred fifty Ks it's hard!

00:21:29: It's intense in that also more unpredictable interesting to watch because Just think about two different stages.

00:21:36: if they have, I don't know... Two hundred Ks and it's flat.

00:21:38: And you just see this massive peloton walling!

00:21:41: The commentators had to talk the buildings around because there is not much to talk about!

00:21:47: So anytime i know of French Geography

00:21:49: Exactly You learn a lot about the castles in small villages.

00:21:53: What happened during war?

00:21:57: Like how does that make you feel?

00:21:58: That the grand tour for men is three weeks.

00:22:01: The longest one, correct me if I'm wrong it's Giro d'Italia.

00:22:03: ten days.

00:22:04: Yeah

00:22:05: It used to be like this.

00:22:06: i think now we have nine or eight on nine.

00:22:09: Okay, they shorten it

00:22:10: just in general.

00:22:11: How do you feel because I mean it's like you say when when some men come riding, they'll be surprised at you know relatively especially on a climb what's for kilo.

00:22:21: Yeah like I can't keep up.

00:22:23: yeah i think that um when it comes to doing three-week grand tour if we have to do would we will be able to do it because when you think about training and riding your bike We ride our bikes every day.

00:22:35: so then of course like pedagone adjusts Like If You Have Three Weeks To Just Race Probably Differently.

00:22:43: Okay, I cannot compare three weeks straight straight to ten days because like never done through weeks But i think that you always deal with what?

00:22:52: You have to do so.

00:22:53: So i would definitely want To see two different.

00:22:56: spend avex with getting Like two weeks long or maybe two and a half And then we eventually get in three weeks.

00:23:03: the only struggle personally i will See is fueling and eating cuz he has to eat so much today.

00:23:10: but like normally when We have nine ten days of Jiro, I always have this feeling in the morning that i just don't want to look at oats or rice pudding or any sort of carbs and you just have to force feed yourself.

00:23:24: And then on the baggy for speed it's all about eating when you don't wanna eat.

00:23:30: basically

00:23:31: Yeah, I mean that That is something has also changed so much right like when everything just used to be you know big bowl of pasta.

00:23:39: Now it's just like your eating don't?

00:23:40: how many gels an hour but a lot.

00:23:43: A lot yeah It's okay.

00:23:45: So there was this trend of having over hundred twenty grams and our corpse.

00:23:50: i tried that But then i also realized maybe i was a victim Of the trend because its-it wasn't working with me.

00:23:57: so everyone had to find perfect medium for themselves.

00:24:01: I always go with eighty, ninety and i feel perfectly

00:24:04: fine.".

00:24:05: Yeah because you love food in general too right?

00:24:07: Like your a bit of a foodie?

00:24:08: Sometimes like I tell to my house on the godlike if it wasn't a sackies for sure would be ten kilos more especially when in America!

00:24:16: Yeah American Food is yeah... It's the best in the world.

00:24:21: And it's packed with sugar also which helps you put some extra kilos.

00:24:27: Then again do Do you cook traditionally as well, like Polish food?

00:24:33: I was really surprised when i raced in Poland.

00:24:34: Like...I had no idea.

00:24:35: but like food is so important.

00:24:37: In some ways we are Eastern European Italians I would say We have passion for food and our traditions Before..i will shy away from polish food But As i get older reconnect with it more and sometimes yeah we have because some days Polish dishes happening at home but um yeah sporadically still.

00:25:08: Why do you think that is?

00:25:09: Is that something where you're just trying to break out and break away from home or...?

00:25:14: Yeah in some ways I felt like when i was younger, I just wanted to escape the country...I don't know why!

00:25:20: I feel like.

00:25:22: and new culture, new people.

00:25:26: And I was more interested in other things...and yeah i don't know.

00:25:32: it feels like as you get older we kind of start to miss your roots or the things that reminds you home and having spent over eleven years away from home in some ways, making food brings me back to where I was.

00:25:46: Yeah always say the best food is time traveling.

00:25:48: take me back there though because the story i read was that you were begging for a road bike.

00:25:54: uh your dad was really one...was really trying to avoid you going into cycling and then you got a roadbike and the next day ...you rode a risk.

00:26:03: yeah so I was very active child from the beginning and my dad got into road cycling with his friends.

00:26:11: And i've got older brothers, so my brother was involved in their afternoon rides Meanwhile...I always kept away from it because they were scared for me being on the road.

00:26:21: So I felt like that's kind of developing this hunter feeling That..I felt I was forbidden doing something I wanted to.

00:26:29: meanwhile My brother hated cycling Like he really didn't want be doing it.

00:26:34: And you know, back in the days when no one knew anything about Sackmin.

00:26:37: So my brother at that time maybe he was fifteen and my dad would take him for like a hundred Ks Sunday, Sunday rides or just come home destroyed?

00:26:47: You're not just crying that He doesn't want to be doing it meanwhile My Dad with his vision of having son.

00:26:53: that does those crazy runs with him.

00:26:56: even if I let go off that then eventually I was like pushing, pushing that they also want to try it.

00:27:03: And one day seriously my dad showed up with this road bike from One of his friends and he's like oh tomorrow is a race we can do it together.

00:27:12: So i just go home and buy the next day.

00:27:16: It was like a time trial.

00:27:17: They're all in boys... ...and then won it.

00:27:21: My first coach got in touch with me.

00:27:23: He wanted me join the training camp.

00:27:26: That how its started.

00:27:27: But I never thought of doing, being cyclists.

00:27:31: I just wanted to travel the world seeing new people.

00:27:34: i was like fourteen or fifteen so it was great for me to meet new people.

00:27:39: and you know see some guys and start dating somebody.

00:27:43: with my friends we were more excited about this sport than training.

00:27:48: So is that what you are after?

00:27:49: Just more the

00:27:51: social side Exactly, yeah like escaping.

00:27:55: So I grew up in the mountains, in Poland.

00:27:57: And in some ways it always felt like... ...I wanted to see more and expand my boundaries.

00:28:05: let's say so i felt like sacking.

00:28:06: was this tool that allowed me just go outside of society?

00:28:12: Take

00:28:12: me into twenty-twenty four You're standing on top step at the podium at the Tour de France Femme avec Zwift and you hear the national anthem.

00:28:26: The girl that grew up in Poland.

00:28:28: to there, I mean... There's a lifetime of memories!

00:28:30: The reasons why we started like do remember what was going through your mind at those moments?

00:28:35: I just saw..I remembered happiness.

00:28:38: it was the excitement and the euphoric feeling.

00:28:42: It is so amazing because i felt like What made this so special Was this contrast between suffering on the mountain Like never before, like going so deep being so disconnected from everything because you just put yourself into the pain cave for So long to then learning that all we want tour de frames.

00:29:07: I went from lowest blows i could ever possibly put myself in too To highest highs where everyone is screaming and hugging you, your friends with like a random people on the street.

00:29:20: You know?

00:29:20: High-fiving... The emotions were so beautiful because it really felt that whole world around me was happy.

00:29:28: And we're just in this cloud nine I don't know.

00:29:32: It really feels as if i'm close to my friends but everyone else is on the streets.

00:29:38: That's cool feeling seeing happiness at night teammates faces and like everyone from the team.

00:29:46: And then having my husband in my close friend there, it was just very special yeah?

00:29:52: Yeah I mean i can only imagine especially because It was a long step to get there right.

00:29:58: you had a lot.

00:30:01: we go through all the highs and lows In sport but I did write down this quote where he said... I lost the faith, which was going up Alpe d'Huez to set the scene.

00:30:16: Which is a final stage.

00:30:17: you were holding on for dear life.

00:30:21: by few seconds The attack Was Up the road and it was touch-and-go of whether You would lose

00:30:25: yeah?

00:30:27: If or Whether You Would Lose the Race Or Win It.

00:30:30: in That Moment You Describe Your Thoughts as Once Again i Lost the Faith.

00:30:34: What's that Felix?

00:30:35: it's not the Greatest Being.

00:30:37: To be honest I remember that luckily, i was able to like refocus this negative thought on the gloves of my hands which is so weird.

00:30:49: The gloves?

00:30:50: Yeah!

00:30:50: So normally when i train ,i never have gloves and When i race...I always put them on for protection also And i remember going into these negative thinking pattern..and i was just getting annoyed were making me feel frustrated because you know when we suffer and things are not going as planned, yeah.

00:31:15: You slowly lose yourself in some ways.

00:31:18: so then I was like looking at those gloves and i'm like fuck...I hate them!

00:31:22: And they took that off?

00:31:24: And all of a sudden I was able to find the rhythm up the climb and I said okay..i am killing it now and once ... I felt like I kind of got rid of the pattern that was nagging or making me feeling less with just taking them off and then I was able to go back into where i supposed to be at.

00:31:42: And yeah, it's been one big suffer fest because normally your mind can bring you further than the body right?

00:31:55: And like two days to go, Evita attacked me and I was so done.

00:32:00: In my head i'm like no...I am not going!

00:32:04: My body actually picked up for the first time where it's like okay out of this adult pantani style holding the drops trying to hold on for dear life.

00:32:16: When you push so deep just completely disconnect from everything You don't see the world around you.

00:32:23: and I even like forgot that i was actually doing tour de France.

00:32:26: It just, my main focus Was to stop the pain?

00:32:31: I also like...I Just don't want it!

00:32:32: I just went out make it with a finish line..i Don't care about anything but just saw this pain stops.

00:32:37: so Like Even This moment of our ride in crossing The Finish Line.

00:32:41: i was So happy it was finished But then i had all these people Around me And i was like go away leave Me alone.

00:32:48: and Then For then somebody's not somebody my DS is screaming from the radio and that brought me back to planet earth.

00:32:56: That I was like, oh shit we're We are at a bike race And i think you won't.

00:33:01: and then You know all the emotions.

00:33:04: yeah It was crazy crazy one hour?

00:33:06: I would say

00:33:07: okay Yeah, it can only imagine.

00:33:09: it's interesting that you focus your Your anger on your gloves and not on the ds.

00:33:13: who's frustrating you in there In your ear?

00:33:15: or no new microphone?

00:33:17: but The one thing that kind of strikes me when I look at your career and reading from the outside completely, right?

00:33:24: But it seems like you have a true passion for riding your bike.

00:33:28: It's something that is not only used to your job but also that you go out and find yourself.

00:33:37: You deal with these moments.

00:33:40: How did you cope?

00:33:43: in professional sports It's about results, it's about pushing numbers.

00:33:48: What's per kilo?

00:33:50: All these kind of things which is the opposite or not but contrasting in a way to really... The flow state.

00:33:59: and you just described this tour And last hour where we made it about purity of cycling.

00:34:05: You didn't care what was going on with the drops.

00:34:10: How do you balance your nature as a fighter versus the systematic approach that cycling has become.

00:34:20: I would say that recently, The biggest help in all of that was my coach.

00:34:26: or is it My Coach?

00:34:27: It changed My Coach last fall and he's so connected with feelings With joy, passion for sport And not at All about numbers From the moment we started training together, which was at October November.

00:34:45: Not even once he gave me upwards where there what were specified.

00:34:49: it's always like Go on the feeling or defeat and do that efforts based in the feeling That you would be able to sustain for two to three hours.

00:34:58: So you have to figure out yourself Like What is the pace I could sustain For that long?

00:35:03: Or He does those efforts but The last one has To Be As High as First One.

00:35:09: Okay, so it makes you think and then with that I feel like You kind of learn more about your own body and ability And less about like the numbers because also.

00:35:21: I felt Like became a victim of the numbers in this whole like what's perky or thing?

00:35:27: Because In their training i would be like okay.

00:35:30: I'm strong again sustain That power.

00:35:32: but of course when you raise like you have zero control over anything.

00:35:35: So then You build this fake confidence of thinking that you can be fighting for top three.

00:35:43: where reality is like, you cannot really hold a heart attack.

00:35:46: So I think with my code research work more on just the feeling and their love for riding bike and racing in bikes.

00:35:57: so yeah i think it definitely helps him, his input.

00:36:01: less analytic or number based approach.

00:36:05: I find the number-based approach very often is like a safety blanket.

00:36:09: Very often, i hear everyone saying that they're getting stronger and my numbers are better.

00:36:14: but so as every one else's you know?

00:36:16: Everyone is improving each year!

00:36:18: So then you have to always find this little percentage which in my opinion comes from your mental side.

00:36:24: how much can you suffer more than

00:36:26: others?!

00:36:29: On such a high level now that if you want to be winning or fighting for podium spots, You just very need to be strong mentally and you need to Yeah do a lot in your day which Towards the one goal with some call sacrifice.

00:36:43: But if you love this sport it just feels like Part of the day, you know.

00:36:49: How can people learn to embrace suffering?

00:36:51: The way you do Like.

00:36:53: how do you...how Do you frame it for yourself?

00:36:55: because Like you said, it's a love-hate thing right?

00:36:59: Nobody loves suffering.

00:37:00: You don't wake up in the morning and say oh great I'm gonna suffer four hours today!

00:37:05: But you know its necessary And...you've mentioned this few times like what is your secret?

00:37:11: I think that The best suffering is when can turn off thinking from your mind Want to go hard and I'm able to do it without thinking.

00:37:25: that's where everybody push myself deep The moment they start thinking about like how many minutes ago or how far?

00:37:32: To the top of the climb Or like if I can sustain the pace, or not.

00:37:37: That's when I started to Back down.

00:37:40: so I think that suffering is just like I don't know.

00:37:45: you cannot.

00:37:45: sometimes Maybe at least we'd just liked to feel the pain.

00:37:50: You know, you like to feel the pain because that gives your satisfaction afterwards.

00:37:53: That makes me feel when I come home can easily sit on a couch and be happy about it!

00:37:58: Don't think of yourself as productive or doing something else?

00:38:03: Like yesterday I had seven hours and was so fine just sitting in my couch, doing normatech... Just watching something and feeling happy about myself or normal, like if you wake up and get straight on the couch then it feels like oh what am I doing with my life?

00:38:20: Deserving the couch.

00:38:21: Yeah exactly!

00:38:23: Work for that couch done.

00:38:26: I mean seven hours certainly...I don't think i've ridden Seven Hours many times in my life but especially around here.

00:38:31: yeah That is a long day In The Settle And when When your out there You have these thoughts Like you start wondering whether this can because really what you're doing is your projecting into the future with a possible negative outcome.

00:38:50: It's A fear of weather, You Can hold it long enough?

00:38:54: It's not like.

00:38:55: okay I'm gonna go out and see.

00:38:56: The curiosity Is almost replaced by Fear.

00:38:58: do you have a ritual to Have a mantra or Do you have something that brings you back To kind Of Realize?

00:39:04: Okay i just need to focus on This Something That Or do you simply always take your gloves now?

00:39:10: You know, is there just something that you can focus yourself on?

00:39:14: Just breathing?

00:39:15: I think mm-hmm.

00:39:16: I start to like just breathe heavily and then try to just stop thinking.

00:39:20: i feel Like in the race if I Don't raise but I think Then I know That it's not.

00:39:26: It's not gonna be a good rise.

00:39:28: I need To Be in this home.

00:39:30: I Need to observe.

00:39:31: I need to let react with my gut feeling does when they know that okay It's Gonna be A Good Day And The Fear Is Yeah, it's still something I constantly work on because at any time... ...I make a plan before the race that this is where i'm gonna attack.

00:39:46: In the race?

00:39:47: I feel so much fear!

00:39:48: Because I am afraid like if attack and I go hard with if others counter-attack me.

00:39:55: So, i still work on this commitment like go with the attack as hard as you can And know that it's so hard.

00:40:02: then nobody else will make me suffer more!

00:40:04: So...I feel like its still working progress.

00:40:07: just committing.

00:40:09: Last Sunday when I watched Tour of Flanders and I saw Dany going for Firemont, you could see that she was so committed to her attack because She went never looked back.

00:40:18: She dropped everyone And then she just cut it on.

00:40:21: So i feel like there is a powerful tool To be at the top and believe in yourself That nobody else will make you suffer.

00:40:31: I would argue it helps a lot if you are the one controlling suffering.

00:40:36: Oh yes, hundred percent!

00:40:38: Yes sometimes i feel like...I prefer to attack more because things that are in my control versus trying to stick through somebody else's wheel and then always feeling less even when I'm training with teammates or whatever.

00:40:52: If Im first on the climb im just in this zone feeling it.

00:40:57: But when I'm on somebody else's wheel, in my head and like why are you accelerating after the corner?

00:41:03: Why do this or that.

00:41:05: You just have too much time to think.

00:41:07: Yeah it is interesting right which probably shows also The mentality between a leader And someone who Is not there yet Because we could argue That its easier To focus On the wheel In front of you.

00:41:23: Just simply Have something to follow And then just try and figure out your move later on.

00:41:31: Cycling is a team sport, you've seen both sides in terms of being a domestic helping others fulfill their dreams.

00:41:39: now You are the position where other's help you take me into The change.

00:41:46: when did you feel that you were ready to take that role?

00:41:48: Is it just performance or is there also mentally a step?

00:41:52: I think It just maybe comes from my character and the place where I grew up, i always felt that was a feisty kid.

00:42:00: Like...I wanted to be the best!

00:42:02: I always wanted to compete with boys and beat them And I think it helped me move into professional sport because when I started writing for Raboban team at age of like twenty or twenty-one.. ..I was in domestic role for Marianne Falls or Anna Van der Breggen but still I never felt like i'm a domestic.

00:42:23: I was like, I am doing it so that I get better and the next time they will work on

00:42:28: me.".

00:42:28: And always feel like...I had this confidence..and maybe when I think about my first time in my life where I hit reality wall actually left Poland because as a kid Everything is perfect.

00:42:48: Everyone's your friend, everyone wants the best for you and everyone will support you.

00:42:53: And then when I realized that actually life was a little more harsh than what i expected That's when it looked like okay You actually need to work on improving your worth.

00:43:02: So um yeah definitely I feel Like uh Growing up or like their childhood shapes you Or shapes y'all future lives based on whether you are fine being domestic or if you strive to be the best.

00:43:19: Were you ever in a situation where as a domestic, felt like you could actually go further?

00:43:27: No because I feel even when it was working for others... ...I tried to hang on for your life as long as i could!

00:43:36: I always felt that.. ..i do my job hundred percent but once the job is done they just swing off but I still like try to then come back and do more.

00:43:48: And, uh if i was dropped again to come back into more...I felt that it could never understand the feeling of just swinging off.

00:43:59: you know when Waze wasn't finished?

00:44:01: Like I had to just come back until they finish line.

00:44:07: What are your thoughts on this?

00:44:09: Why did you think so?

00:44:09: Because essentially what's being paid for is done.

00:44:15: Prepare yourself for the next day.

00:44:16: Yeah, the next race where?

00:44:20: What is it inside of you that just can't let go?

00:44:24: I think that It came also with a lot off this prejudice That they faced when i moved out of fallen.

00:44:30: because like i grew up in an environment Where i was really supported and like i had a lot Of close friends to them being to then writing for Dutch team and in Holland they thought that all Polish people, just party.

00:44:42: They want a good drunk...they had this thinking about us Poles who made me feel guilty or ashamed.

00:44:50: so I really felt like needed proof.

00:44:54: we were worthy in some ways.

00:44:56: So i think it was giving me motivation.

00:44:59: Hold on, like where?

00:45:01: A lot more than just drinking vodka and partying every night with the neighbors.

00:45:07: Yeah definitely not too much of that.

00:45:10: you could be doing a seven hour ride but...

00:45:14: One beer and your off!

00:45:17: Exactly now I find the team dynamic obviously very fascinating because in our sport it's kind of for every woman every man for themselves.

00:45:25: we have the team infrastructure to get to start line but never within the race.

00:45:30: They've tried it thousands of times, you know?

00:45:32: Even at the Olympic distance where its much shorter to implicate a team kind of strategy.

00:45:37: But that's why I have never had someone sacrifice their race for mine.

00:45:42: Yeah It is really beautiful!

00:45:45: I feel like... Its hard just get this for free.

00:45:48: You really need too As a leader..its not that you show up for it and say ok you will work on me.

00:45:56: Especially in women teams, you need to make sure that all of the girls are like understood and they're listened too.

00:46:04: That day our valuable that they feel that everyone cares for them.

00:46:09: when they meet him again at the support side around it is very important to make short that they all feel worthy an needed.

00:46:18: I always spent a fair amount time making sure.

00:46:22: today I feel just listen to or under stood and then It's When You Ask for the support and help.

00:46:29: And if there are happy riders, they know that their health actually can bring amazing results... That's why Team World comes closer together!

00:46:38: If you just come to a team with riders who don't even know or feel like oh I need to sacrifice my race but somebody else's result will not do it hundred percent.

00:46:48: so i think its very important for all leaders take care of the riders about themselves and their feelings.

00:46:59: Which is hard to do, right?

00:47:00: Because I mean you've got your own world going on And then have the emotional space to react like everybody can be kind of nice when they had nine hours of sleep in an easy day.

00:47:12: It's kinda continuous In a training camp You see... On your social media When we go around there are always kind of like A cafe stop involved somewhere Not allways but sometimes it or having shared meal.

00:47:25: Is that something you are always very conscious of?

00:47:30: or did you learn from one your role models?

00:47:34: Yeah, I think it's like something you just pick up as you grow in this work.

00:47:41: The coffee shop stops are definitely certain!

00:47:44: I find them two ways.

00:47:45: Like, one way is like you do it on your recovery ride and the other where when you go for a massive ride then want to have nice destination or motivation to get somewhere?

00:47:56: This what i always liked doing in America especially because things are far away from eachother.

00:48:01: so i would alway spend a nice coffee shop somewere and make love around that.

00:48:05: Have u ever made mistake in america of planning a ride and planed it miles in turn?

00:48:10: No!

00:48:12: being with the tracks and that would like scare their ass out of me.

00:48:18: Yeah, they are...

00:48:20: They're not happy about seeing cyclists on the road.

00:48:23: No, they just aren't used to it which is something a bit of a paradise.

00:48:28: You've been with Kenny's Ram for how long?

00:48:31: Since two thousand eighteen so its' been..

00:48:35: Long

00:48:36: time!

00:48:36: A long

00:48:36: time really knowing your team.

00:48:40: Is the structure sometimes really difficult because I feel like in cycling it's also a little bit, you are dependent on The team being built around You.

00:48:49: People make their own decisions and where they go.

00:48:51: is that something now That you have kind of been with A Team for long enough?

00:48:56: Then your say And can help build A Team or just a magic bag at the beginning Of the year?

00:49:03: No definitely Being With A Team For So Long Helps Especially when It comes to the race preparation because they know how I function, so as we talked before about like this mental support for other cyclists or riders on a team.

00:49:20: For me in order to be able do that i need proper time for myself beforehand.

00:49:25: So very often I go for training camps on altitude all my own and with husband.

00:49:33: It's time to charge my batteries that when I come into the race, i feel like...I can be giving not only in the race but also outside of the race.

00:49:40: But then the race is finished and I feel depleted from energy And again have to escape!

00:49:45: I cannot do it week-in or week out.

00:49:49: So they underspend me need for a private time Or the need for time by myself And they never forced me to do anything.

00:49:59: So I realized that's something definitely makes me appreciate the team, but... They just know how it functions and don't need to explain myself or beg for extra time off.

00:50:08: But then..they just know that if....I have to be on my own Then they know i will prepare a hundred percent.

00:50:19: You mentioned your husband, Taylor Finney a few times and you know he's always got a cycling family.

00:50:25: Your dad comes from the cycling background.

00:50:28: does it help to feel understood?

00:50:30: Yeah so yeah here come very second oriented family let say.

00:50:36: Fair to say!

00:50:38: So like its interesting for me seeing two approaches that my family thought They got into sighting later in their lives and his family where they grew up with the bike around.

00:50:50: so when it comes to races like my family always approaches more emotionally that maybe because also I'm their daughter, but they care about me feelings emotions.

00:51:00: And he's family helps me see the race from goal perspective, like okay how do we achieve it or change something?

00:51:10: So between more races I get a technical support also from them.

00:51:16: Not that they're my DSs but allow me to see their race from the tactical point of view

00:51:22: We talked about in our fair earlier.

00:51:25: your mother-in-law won Olympic gold and NLA retired at the same day.

00:51:31: That kind of shows Not not that she's unemotional towards it, but then you realized okay.

00:51:39: This is what she set out to achieve.

00:51:41: Yeah

00:51:41: and

00:51:42: You know kind of around for a good time not a long-time yeah Kind thing?

00:51:46: Is that something that helps you see it more For yourself to realize that your doing the sport for you rather than all the achievements That stand on your resume?

00:51:57: Yep To be honest I feel The ok.

00:52:00: as we mentioned before like Riding a bike is the huge passion of mine.

00:52:05: I love riding a bike.

00:52:06: if i have time off or Like, a rest period with Taylor we go for massive adventure rides like our Favorite days to wake up but being breakfast.

00:52:17: together pack Our bikes and then ride ahead towards France toward Spain anywhere.

00:52:23: But there's them the whole day on a bike which Is not like training?

00:52:27: But We just Go With The Flow we stop wherever we want a bunch of different delicious food, and then we just wanna come home when it gets dark.

00:52:37: And very often become home when its like ten or eleven

00:52:40: p.m.,

00:52:41: with the headlights on our encalments... Just feeling like kids you know?

00:52:46: So happy to spend whole day outside!

00:52:49: I think that uh.. When have passion in local sport is so much easier than do everyday and invest more from yourself.

00:52:59: How do feel after sit still for days?

00:53:02: Oh, it's difficult.

00:53:05: I feel like sometimes they wonder am i addicted to the sport?

00:53:09: Do I do?

00:53:10: because what is the level of addiction in there?

00:53:14: but yeah if I have all season and know that I need to sit still for ten days or two weeks Yeah...I get Not nervous, but like restless.

00:53:27: I need to do something.

00:53:28: so i feel Like that's when the passion for cooking comes because a piece i can kind of kill The time with there.

00:53:33: yeah With the explorations in the kitchen experiences

00:53:37: always curious We have actually A traditional starting and closing question But we got straight into it.

00:53:44: i forgot the.

00:53:45: i forgot this starting one?

00:53:47: but This Episode is Is cassio going mental Right?

00:53:53: The whole podcast is called Going Mental.

00:53:56: And when you hear going mental, what does it mean to you?

00:54:01: Going mental... It's like doing crazy rides for example.

00:54:05: Going for seven hours riding and trying to get as many attitude meters gains possible.

00:54:11: just so kill yourself or write comments.

00:54:14: I feel that we cannot walk up the stairs anymore.

00:54:18: Garcia thankyou very

00:54:36: much!

00:54:38: Thank you.